Izzy 0:00
Hi, Janeite, welcome to episode 13 of the What the Austen? podcast and this is also part two of the Harry Potter x Jane Austen episode series. So last month, me and Caily were on and we covered Pride and Prejudice and sense sensibility. We matched Elizabeth Bennet Marianne Dashwood and Elenor Dashwood into their Hogwarts houses. In this episode we're continuing on, and we're going to be looking at Emma, Mansfield Park, Northanger Abbey and persuasion. So Caily Is back.
Caily
Thanks for having me back. I so enjoyed recording the last episode with you, as you know, Jane Austen, and the Harry Potter series, two of my ultimate loves of my life.
Izzy
So this is amazing. Being able to do this with you. I love that. So we really recommend listening to part one if you haven't already, just because we go into a lot of depth about the houses. And also, it's just good to see how we begin to sort people. So like episode one, we're going to have a primary house with the heroines but also a secondary house. And as we talked about in the first episode, there's a lot of like hidden parts of people's personalities that really come up in what we think is their secondary house. So that's why we and I feel like that's why we have the most debate. Isn't that right, Caily?
Caily
Yes, I feel like we really were in agreement on all characters, primary house houses so far. But when it came to the secondary house, we'd have to have a really interesting debate on the characteristics and yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's definitely, there's more there. There's more to them than first meets the eye. And so yeah, I really recommend going over to that too.
Izzy
But today, we are going to do you know, a brief summary of the houses before we start. And then yeah, we'll get into the nitty gritty of the contents. So before we start, we clearly have some exciting news though. Caily is going to be coming to the UK to visit which is super exciting.
Caily
Oh my gosh, I can't wait. If I can sort everything out with my passport update, I'll be able to visit you Izzy and we'll actually be able to meet in person for the first time. Because Izzy and I started our accounts around the same time during COVID and became friends over Instagram, and then met virtually and started recording the podcast episodes, but it'll be the first time that we'll actually get to meet face to face and do some Jane Austen related exploring. We might go to chatan or the Chatsworth Pemberly house, there are so many things that we could do together and I'm I'm just very excited.
Izzy
I know. I'm so excited. It's so weird. Like sometimes I forget. I mean, I work virtually. And that's kind of what I do for a living guys.
Caily
I feel like I know you say well, it's weird that we've never met in person. I know I talked about you all the time. I'll say my friend Izzy. And yeah, I feel like we have met in person because we've we've done so much together and been through so much with the podcast, so I'm glad it's finally happening.
Izzy
I know. I'm so excited. I can't wait. So yeah, well, this is why you guys you should follow us over on Instagram @whattheausten because I share l this kind of thing over there. So definitely come hit me up for you can see what's going on behind the scenes. And you'll be able to see when Caily comes in visits, because I will I'm sure I'll share bits about that. So, Caily, do you want to kick things off scene a little bit about the houses? I were just gonna do a brief summary.
Caily
Sure. So, again, we go into this in a lot more detail in the first episode, but we thought we'd just do a brief summary. So for Gryffindor door, some CT strengths are bravery daring, they tend to be the protector of the underdog. And then weaknesses are an impulsivity black and white thinking. Some key characters from Gryffindor door are Dumbledore, serious black and Molly Weasley, and then Ravenclaw. We said that some strengths are intelligence and wit. And then weaknesses are a tunnel vision that keeps them separate from reality. They're a little bit insular. Some key characters from Raven claw are Cho Chang. Gilderoy Lockhart.
Izzy
Luna
Caily
Luna Lovegood Yeah,
Caily
Some strengths of Hufflepuff are they're loyal, hard working patient and weaknesses are they can be indecisive and and passes.
Izzy
I was just gonna say about Hufflepuffs as well is, I think a lot of people, but there's a specific quote, I remember reading which said, saying that they're like a loadable duffers, which just means like, like, kind of stupid or unintelligent. And I know in like the first episode kale, you were saying about how Slytherins have a really bad rap. But I think Hufflepuffs again, are house that are kind of under-appreciated, or misunderstood, in many ways, because I don't think Hufflepuffs like, unintelligent, there's some really smart Hufflepuffs I mean, if you look at new in the fantastic B series, he's like an expert on magical creatures. And also Cedric Diggory said to be really smart as well. So yeah, I feel like they're there the other misunderstood house a lot of the time. Absolutely. And I read an article that said that Hufflepuffs would actually be the best suited to leadership, because they can be so calm and rational and hear everyone's perspective without being impulsive or exploding, but that they don't seek out those positions of power because they're conflict averse. They don't like to rock the boat. And they can because of that in decisiveness, but I thought that was very interesting that they might be the most suited to those positions of power. Yeah, yeah, I can see I can imagine that that absolutely being the case. And yeah, so first slither in. Some strengths are that they are very ambitious and shrewd and loyal to their pack. And then weaknesses are they can be a bit power hungry and calculated.
And then some key characters in slithering are Lucius Malfoy obviously his son Draco Bellatrix was strange. And Horace Slughorn, which I find it an interesting one. Yes, I always forget about him. But that is actually such a good. He's such a good one to remember. It's a bit like Lockhart and Ravenclaw. Like the ones that you forget, because they don't have those standout qualities of the house. That you're like, if Yeah, I love it when there's like those people that you don't think fit and they do fit. Exactly. Yeah, he doesn't have the exaggerated power hungry traits. But when you analyse his character, you totally see that he's a slither in that social climbing. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Yes. That's so good. So I think something that we were valuable is for us to just do a quick recap on where we placed Elizabeth, Marianne and Eleanor because
Izzy
I mean, obviously, if you want to know the details, you'll have to listen to the episode, but it's good to just remember where we placed them just to see how they compared to these heroines that we're going to do today. So for Elizabeth Bennett, we placed her in Gryffindor was her main house, and then Ravenclaw was her secondary house. Yes, yeah, we were pretty torn actually, because we think she has so many of Gryffindor and Ravenclaw qualities. And we recognise the fact that she's extremely witty and she has a very Ravenclaw relationship with her father. But also, we felt like prison door won out in the end because of her steadfast courage, especially standing up to Mr. Darcy, Mr. Collins, and challenging Lady Catherine de Burgh. She really had that sense of bravery, and then a sense of honour, and she was a protector of her sister. Anyway, at the end of the day, we really thought it was neck and neck, but we landed on Gryffindor Yeah, I think one of the key quirks that we pointed out was that the one about her stubbornness and how that she's like, she always rises when people try to intimidate her and I think that's that quote alone is just very much sums up her Gryffindor side.
Absolutely. And my courage always rises with every attempt to intimidate me. Yeah, exactly. That's just Gryffindor. dosterone for.
Izzy
So yeah, that was Elizabeth. And then we did Marianne Dashwood from sensibility and we had her primary house being Gryffindor door. And then we were conflicted on her secondary house. So I was kind of driven multiple slithering, and Caily was driven more towards Ravenclaw.
So we didn't agree on a secondary house for Marianne. I loved that conversation. I thought that was so interesting. You know, we decided that she had a lot of the immature qualities of a Gryffindor right. She's impulsive and impetuous. But then you talked about her slither and traits, which I thought were it was a really good discussion. You notice how she's a bit
snobby, and she thought that she was better than other people. And I saw the Ravenclaw traits of how she's kind of in her head in her own world. She loves poetry. She loves music. And so, yeah, we were undecided. But all of those encompass Marianne. Yes, that was that was a really good debate. I can remember having that one. That was a good one.
Izzy
Okay, great. And the final person that we didn't last episode was Eleanor Dashwood. And we both said that she was the hardest one for us to place into a house. And even like our discussion, we were like, gosh, like, Where does she fall?
Caily
It was really interesting, like details that we got into about Elena and like, why it was difficult to place her. But the house that we ended up going with was Hufflepuff. And then we said that she was a source of repressed refundable for her secondary house.
Yes, yeah. We talked so much about how she's loyal patient hard working, but we felt like Hufflepuff didn't really do justice and fully portray her and we talked about those Gryffindor qualities that that bravery, and steadfastness that she has, that definitely needs to be accounted for in her character.
Izzy
Yeah, 100% Totally agree. So, yeah. So if we get into today's characters and today's doubles, super excited to do this again.
Izzy
Okay, so the next heroin on the list is Emma Woodhouse, so I'll just say a little bit about Emma. Emma is described as being beautiful, wealthy, smart, slightly self deluded and self confident. She is a bit narrow minded, she can be quite meddlesome, she is quite spoiled but I think that is a reflection of her sheltered upbringing. I think she can be considered manipulative but I don't think it's in a malicious way, i think it's her arrogance. Jane Austen said herself that Emma is a heroin that no one but myself will much like. But I disagree, I love Emma but I understand why she would think that was as I know a lot of people really dislike Emma, so yeah-
Caily
Yeah, I like Emma, I think she's a lot of fun and very different to the other heroins which I appreciate and I think besides Mary-Anne she also has the most character development and growth, which I really appreciate about her. I think you summed her up really well, I think, i wrote she's easily adored and derives happiness from external circumstances instead of internal accomplishments, and is used to getting her own way. I think Mr Knightley is a barometer to her, she is a care taker, even though she is resentful of it sometimes she caretakers for Ms Bates she takes Harriet under her wing I think she's prideful, she's combination of socially savvy and not. But she is highly aware of societal rank and social status and knows the status of others so i think she can be a bit snobby. There is a scene where she is invited to the Coles party and because they are of lower social standing she's like I don't think i'm going to accept and only excepts when she finds out other people of similar social standing are going. i find her kind of ambitious, in her own way, she wants to be the belle of the ball and she is in her home town. But she is very threatened by Jane Fairfax because she knows Jane Fairfax is competition, what else would I say bout her? I think she is very playful and loving and fun, there is a lot to like about her, yeah.
Izzy
Interesting, I am so excited to tell you what my houses are for Emma. So, i've got two, one of them is Slytherin and the other is Ravenclaw.
Caily
Okay, okay, so we have similar to last time, Slytherin I think is her primary house and her secondary, I couldn't decide between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw but ended up leaning toward Gryffindor for this one.
Izzy
Okay, I'll tell you my thoughts on Slytherin and Ravenclaw and then i'm interested to see why you chose that, because I was also stuck a little bit between Gryffindor as well, so it would be really good to hear why that was your secondary one in the end. My thoughts on Slytherin as the main house totally, agree, she is a good leader. She pretty much leads Highbury, she is kind of at the top of that social ladder and she knows it. She uses it to her advantage but she is also very good at it, she leads the ball and people look to her for advice and she sits very comfortably in that Slytherin trait of being able to sit comfortably in a leadership position and get people to follow you. I agree with the ambition side of her, I think she is absolutely ambitious and again i think that can turn into a bit of snobbery and I think it is slightly mirrored in Slytherins favoring pure bloods in the house, I think that is quite similar with the Coles and that she didn't want to go to the party until she knew people of a similar standing to her were going. So I do think she really does have that which can be a negative trait of Slytherins but i think she shares that. My thoughts on Ravenclaw is because she is very independent minded and creative and she has a lot of original ideas of who should be with who. One of my main thoughts of why Ravenclaw is that when i was doing that deeper reading, I was saying to you about the people that are really good at drawing in fame and popularity. People like Lockheart and Cho Chang, so Emma is amazing at this, she is basically like a celebrity in Highbury.She knows how to draw in that attention and captivate people and I think that is an unspoken side of Ravenclaws that I think she really captures. I think that is why it was very much my second house for her. There is one more point that I literally just came up with there, when you were talking about it, she is competitive against other Ravenclaws and that is very much a Ravenclaw trait, they are competitive with people in their own house and if you place Jane Fairfax as a Ravenclaw.
Caily
05:44 Oh yeah, Jane Fairfax is such a Ravenclaw, so that makes sense - That's such a good point, oh man, you're killing it okay so yeah, I agree with you completely on Slytherin. You summed it up so well, the snobbery, the focus on status and knowing her place in society and knowing others place and looking down on others at times. And I think too, that at times she is supposed to hit it of with frank Churchill, he is the high status guy that she is supposed to end up with and I think the fact that she is snobby about Mr Martin when she calls him only a farmer. She won't interact with him, she has this level of cunning that's a little conniving as she's going to set up this little plan to marry her fried off to Mr Elton. Okay so the reason I didn't put her in Ravenclaw is because she has all of there books that she never reads and she doesn't really practice piano, I just don't really see, you have a good argument, given that she is very creative but I don't she her as much of an intellectual, she's not a person to sit and read and get lost in her intellectual ideas, I think she is more interested in other people than about intellectual pursuits. For Gryffindor I put Gryffindor because she takes care of the underdog, she takes care of Harriet, she cares for Ms Bates, she cares for her father, Gryffindors can be protectors ad caretakers and I think she does have the Gryffindor black and white thinking she is so focused with Mr Elton being in love with Harriet that she can't see he has been in love with her the whole time. And because she love her friend so much she can't see that Harriet as having the same social status as Mr Martin so sometimes I think she thinks very rigidly and I do think another reason I put her as a Gryffindor as her second house is because when Mr Knightley calls her out she actually has the courage to change, remember when he calls her out, I think Gryffindors are really willing to change and when he calls her out for being incentive she really takes that to heart. And I don't know-
Izzy
08:27 Yes, and I think that really speaks to her character, like you said before, the fact that she develops to much is something Gryffindors are really good at, they can learn from their mistakes and develop their character as they go along. I think obviously Harry is a really great example of that and Ron, even though he's always got that hot headedness and that kind of takes over at times, I think he definitely grows as a character and he is able to channel both his good and bad and we see his good side more as he grows up and can actually value his strengths as well and feel less threatened by Harry.
Caily
09:13 I definitely agree with you, I think Ron is one who will take action and can we both Agree that Emma is not a Hufflepuff at all.
Izzy
09:28 Oh no, god no. She has absolutely no Hufflepuff in her, even in her little finger, she is no Hufflepuff.
Caily
09:33 I think Emma is one to really take action and that is a very Gryffindor quality, she realises she loves Mr Knightly and it hits her like a ton of bricks and then they get together. There is a lot of action taking and I don't think there is much indecisiveness there.
Izzy
09:50 I love it, and also, having it under your nose thing it's kind of like the Harry and Ginny Weasley situation as well, sometimes it takes time for them to recognise their feelings. I think you've actually convinced me, I think her secondary house is Gryffindor.
Caily
10:10 Yeah I think I'm gonna stick with that, Slytherin and secondary house Gryffindor but I loved your point about Ravenclaw that she is her own person and an individual. She was the one who was fine like, I'm not going to get married. Remember at first? She was like I'm fine being my own person i don't need to get married. So I do like that argument, but I am sticking with Slytherin and Gryffindor.
Izzy
10:35 I love it, no, I think you've convinced me, I think i'm willing to put Ravenclaw aside and go with Gryffindor. Okay - The next heroin on the list is Cathrine Moorlands, a couple of things I'd like to say about Cathrine is that she is a hopeless romantic, an avid reader, she is a bit gullible and naive at times, she is curious, open minded and I think she is a little bit spiritual that comes with the open mindedness, i know at the time the dominant religion at the time was christianity, she was a christian but I think she has more of a necromindedness that comes in with the supernatural elements of the book and yeah, i don't think she's too closed in by society, I think her region helps with that. She seems to be very open to things that other women her age haven't even thought about. But yeah, what are your thoughts on Cathrine?
Caily
11:38 yeah, I think I cold be swayed on this one, i think I agree with you, I think she has a high level of passion for reading and she gets lost in her imagination, she's intellectually curious, she's the one that wants to explore the abby, she's the one who Is so excited to go on the adventure, leave her family go to bath. I love that quote in Northern or Abby that says if adventures will not befall a young lady in her own village, she must seek them abroad. And I just think that's a great way to describe her. I think she's very trustworthy and loyal. Some, some people describe her naive and I think there's some fairness to that, but sometimes I think it's overblown. I think she always kind of sees the character flaws in people. She just doesn't necessarily act on act on it and set her boundaries at first. But yeah, I, I think that she is definitely has Raven claw tendencies and then I could go back and forth between Gryffindor and Hufflepuff. I think I, I landed on Raven club primary and Gryffindor secondary.
Izzy
13:00 Ooh, interesting. So I did Ravenclaw primary and Hufflepuff secondary.
Caily
13:09 Okay. Yeah, why did you choose Hufflepuff?
Izzy
13:12
I think it's, um, her kind nature she's very much, I don't think she sees status, especially in a comparison to someone like Emma. I really don't think she's fussed by status whatsoever. She wants to be friends with people because they have similar interest because they're nice people she's very good at being like, like with John she's, she doesn't like him, she just doesn't and, and she doesn't spend time with him because of that. Whereas, the Tilneys are of a much higher standing than she is. And I don't think she sees that. I don't think she sees status. That's why I think it's such a shock to her when, Henry's father is actually like a fortune hunter after, because I don't think that even would've ever come into her mind because I think she cares about people so much. She just sees it. I really enjoy my, this company. I want to spend time with them. I don't think she thinks about it on how society would, I think that's a lot that she is in her head, a lot of the time, but I don't think she's affected by society. Like some of the other heroines are.
Caily
14:14 I agree. I think she's 0%. Slytherin right. She doesn't have that level of you're. Right. She doesn't focus on status and I wouldn't say she's particularly ambitious or cunning or shrewd. I can see with Hufflepuff, she is very trusting. I think she's loyal. Yeah, I, and she's kind you're right. There's Hufflepuffs are known for being the kindest house so I can see Hufflepuff on that level. I think, I can be convinced by that for sure. I think what I saw with Gryffindor is I just saw her adventurous spirit. And I think, I think considering her humble background, I think the fact that she was had that boldness to venture to bath and not be intimidated and just kind of throw herself in the mix of society. I do think she has an ad adventurous spirit and just the fact that she wanted to explore the Abby. She has an adventurous side, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's her secondary house. I dunno.
Izzy
15:24
I love that. I that's such a good point. You know, she is, she's really brave. She literally just like goes out and does things. I think the only time that she's slightly a little bit shaken is, um, when they kind of kick her out in the middle of the night. But even then I actually think it's, Henry's sister who's more worried than Catherine even is. I think she's so bold. I think that's probably, yeah, I can see why you'd kick Gryffindor because of that a hundred percent Raven Clark for her, for her main house, that curiosity that open-mindedness, um, the fact that she's like, so into reading, um, I remember when I did the Disney princess, one, one of my like main princesses that I linked it to was Alice from Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. Because I just think she's got, that kind of just gets over overpowered by her imagination sometimes. And um, I think that's very much a brave and trait. Like I can see a lot of Luna in her, less about like kind of the quirkiness and the individuality, but very much that she just gets focused on her own thoughts. I think the adaptations do a really good job if that way it's like, she'll just like start daydreaming about like, if she was in a novel.
Caily
16:32 Exactly. I think that Northanger Abby adaptation with Felicity Jones, is that her name? Brilliant. Such a great, portrayal of Katherine Moreland. And I thought the connection to Alice in Wonderland was perfect too. So I agree with you, her imagination and her love of literature and books is really the, the main feature. So we both agree on Ravenclaw.
Izzy
16:56 Yeah. And I totally agree that adaptation's really good. I actually remember in university, people would come up to me cuz we were doing Northanger as one of the books and they were like, if I watch the adaptation, am I gonna get enough out of it? I was like, yeah, there's this particular adaptation. And I think you'll really like, get a grasp on all the characters if you watch it. It's a really good, really good adaptation of the book.
Caily
17:19 I really like the actor for Mr. Tilney in that, in that adaptation too, but I digress.
Izzy
17:25 Yeah. So true. Okay. So we're gonna go for Ravenclaw is the main house I think I can tell. Oh, I don't know. I can see Gryffindor. I can see, I can see both. I, I think if we go off maybe core characteristics again, maybe it's that, that boldness, that courageousness, the fact that she's willing to step out of her comfort zone really does make her more of a Gryffindor yeah, that's a good.
Caily
17:55 Point to go back. So the external trait of Gryffindor is bravery and the external trait of Hufflepuff is being hard working and then core value for Gryffindor is justice and, and core value for Hufflepuff is fairness.
Izzy
18:08 Oh, see, I'd say she's more fairness than justice.
Caily
18:20 Yes. It's so hard. Isn't it?
Izzy
12:22 It is really hard.
Caily
12:26 But I would put her more brave than hard working.
Izzy
18:29 I think that even though she does, she is able to stand on her own two feet. I think she is quite led by other people, which I'd say is more Huff puff. Like I think later with time when she's reflected, she's able to be like, actually I don't wanna spend time with that person again, but in the moment, I think she's overpowered by some of the more slithering characters, someone, um, I'd say like Isabella, who's very cunning, very ambitious, um, is able to sway her. Um, John, her brother is able to sway her. I think even the, till me, um, to an extent, I think Henry is very good at, um, driving Catherine in different paths. And I think sometimes she can actually not realize he's being sarcastic and he can, he can be teasing her a lot of the time.
Caily
19:15 Ah you're so, okay. You're you, you're right about the naivety and that's a, that is a, a weakness, a characteristic weakness of Hufflepuff and being able to be influenced by others. Okay. I'm with you. I think let's do let's do Ravenclaw primary Hufflepuff secondary yeah. Just raised her hands in triumph.
Izzy
19:35 So funny. So the next on the list is Anne Elliott, a couple of things that I'd say about Ann, um, sweet. She's very nurturing. She's sensible, she's caring and she's extremely selfless. Um, but I think she definitely also has like her own, um, even though she's persuaded to start with her mind, doesn't wave from like her true feelings. She can be persuaded outwardly, but I think it's very difficult to change Annes, core beliefs, how she feels. She's got a lot of integrity there. I think.
Caily
20:26 Absolutely. I think she she's so humble. Modest. And this is in such contrast with, with her father and older sister who are such narcissists, she's such a caretaker she's patient. Think about how many people's complaints, illnesses, problems that she has to deal with. Everyone turns to her because she has this stoicism. And just like you said, yes, she's externally persuaded out of marrying captain Wentworth, but internally she's so steadfast and, and she knows what she wants. She's extremely trustworthy, reliable. And when we think about her, her weaknesses, she, I do consider her kind of a pushover. I think everyone imposes on her. Remember when Mary wouldn't take care of her own son and went off to the party and Anne is caring for Mary's son while Mary's at the party. And I think she, Anne was indecisive. She, she was young at the time. She was only 19, but she let lady Russell convince her out of marrying the person that she loves forever so.
Izzy
21:48 That she loves forever.
Caily
21:51 Okay. Best story ever. Right. Best love story of all time.
Izzy
21:54 Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Okay. No, I'd like to know what houses you've picked because even though I've picked you houses, um, I think very similar to Eleanor, I don't, I don't necessarily feel passionate about which house to put her in.
Caily
22:12 For her, I really had one house in mind and I'm, I don't, I don't even really have a secondary house for her as much. I, I really, I really put her in Hufflepuff. I think the reason I put her in Hufflepuff is how humble and kind she is and how patient she is with everyone. How trustworthy, reliable she is. She has a very strong sense of emotional regulation, emotional control. I think she has the weaknesses of Hufflepuff. I think just like I said before, people impose on her, she's a bit of a pushover sometimes, and she's indecisive that being said, and she's very competent and that's a Hufflepuff trait, someone who's hardworking and competent. Yeah. I, but now I feel like I'm not totally doing her justice because even though she's indecisive with regard to certain actions, she takes, she does know her own mind. She knows that she loves Wentworth and she is strong enough to reject when Mary's husband proposes to her. And she's strong enough to reject the advances of Mr. Elliot. So she basically rejects two other men when she's, when she's older and you know, she's 27, right. And yeah, I put her Hufflepuff. I think I'm struggling with the, the second house.
Izzy
23:50 So I did put Hufflepuff. But also Gryffindor and I think all the things you've just said then are why I've went with Gryffindor. I think she's got a fire in a belly, like the rejections of the proposals, but also, you know, when she goes and visits her friend and her friend tells her like about the true nature of, um, Mr. Elliot, there's a couple things about that that I think make it, her really Gryffindor one, her father and sister are like, why are you gonna visit? I think name's miss. Like, why would you visit with the second name Smith? Uh, because they think she's really common. Anne really could not give a flying fig what they think. And she will go regardless. And I think she's got so much conviction for what she wants to do. Yes. She's nurturing. And it can be seen as a bit of a pushover. The fact that she looks after Mary's children looks after Mary, but I don't think she'd do anything that she didn't want to. And I think that's because she's learnt from the mistake of rejecting Wentworth that first time I think it, I think it sparked more of her Gryffindor side that she lost something that she loved so much by falling prey to her more Hufflepuff traits that I think it, it kind of awakened more of her Gryffindor.
Caily
25:00 Oh my gosh. Just as you're saying that that makes so much sense because you said that, Anne reminds you of Eleanor in some ways. And we said that Eleanor is a Hufflepuff, but then is a repressed Gryffindor as a secondary house. And I see that, I see that with Ann now, I think Ann is a Huff puff, but she does have some Gryffindor qualities that are also repressed, but I think she enacts them when she rejects Mary's husband. And when she's rejecting Mr. Elliot. Yeah. Oh, okay. Look, I I'm with you, I'm with you because, and I think the reason she's not a Raven claw is when you talk about that level of individuality independence, I wouldn't necessarily put Anne in that category. I think Anne's an amazing character. She's one of the most evolved heroins from start to finish. But yeah, I don't, I don't put her in Ravenclaw, I think.
Izzy
25:57 Yeah. And I think the fact that she's so juxtaposed against her father and, her sister, which I would consider both of those to be very much slither ins. I think again, that shows more of her Gryffindor traits because she's basically the polar opposite to them. And I think Gryffindor sliver in a quite polar opposite when you consider all the houses in total, I'd put them kind of opposite one another.
Caily
26:19 I completely agree with that.
Izzy
26:23 Yeah, not that I'm saying you can't have elements of both. Like I was arguing for, Emma oh no, you were arguing for Emma. You convinced me for Emma. Yeah. So there we go. We'll see. So yeah. So we're gonna go for Hufflepuff main house for Anne secondary house Gryffindor. So we have one more Heroin to do, and that is Fanny Price. So I left Fanny to the end because she's a bit of a wild card for me with my thoughts on her. Some of the characteristics of Fanny, that she is independent, she's modest. She's quite sheltered. She's shy. One of her characteristics that's quite negative, I think she's very jealous and affirmative. And yeah, that's, that's most of my things on the list for Fanny, I'd like to tell you my house is first, just so that we can like, right. Okay. Cuz I think it's just gonna make it easier to like shape the conversation. So my main house for funny was Hufflepuff, but my secondary house was Slytherin.
Caily
27:33 Oh, oh no way. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. My main one was, that was not what I was expecting. I'm so excited to hear this. My main one was Hufflepuff and then secondary Gryffindor. So I think both of ours are actually controversial. I think everyone right now is probably going what Slytherin or Gryffindor for Fanny price. Have you read the books? But can't wait to hear why you think that.
Izzy
28:00 No absolutely, so this is the one when I was thinking about it myself I go the most excited about. I have a very complex relationship with Fanny, if you listen to the episode that i did with Naomi, that was like Fanny Price or House Elf, yeah, I feel a little bit like, she isn't my favourite heroin, at all but I think she is a really interesting character. I mean Hufflepuff Slytherin, you would think they're polar opposites as well but I think she has elements of both. Hufflepuffs are very loyal, she is absolutely loyal to that family, one hundred percent, that's one of the reasons I considered her a house elf. It's unwavering loyalty to them, she gets very threatened by outsiders, she is very dedicated to supporting them, she's very kind and kind of timid which is very Hufflepuff, she is very driven by what they want not her wants and needs yet I think she is also very cunning, very resourceful, she's very jealous, very ambitious and very practice and I think practicality is a very strong Slytherin trait. She is really able to make the best of her situation and make it work for her. So when she turns up she is a complete outsider, and I think she finds the things that make it work for her. And i think she finds it in her relationship with Edmund, obviously she starts riding, i think she is really good at finding her own even in a bad situation and I think that is a trait of a Slytherin to be able to do that, to make the best of even the worst situation and make it work for them, I think the negative side to Slytherins is jealousy and I think fanny definitely falls into that, it's hilarious when I re-read Mansfield Park and see all of the inward feeling of Fanny where she is like totally hating on Mary Crawford, baring in mind Mary Crawford Isn't that mean to her, she's actually quite nice to her. But she looks, she's a bit patronising to Fanny but I don't think she's cruel, it's not like a Caroline Bingley, she's not rubbing it in her face. She doesn't even realise that she likes Edmund more than just a sibling but with Fanny I think you can feel that hatred toward Mary Crawford. i think she goes back and forth with it, sometimes she's like Mary's nice and other times she's like, I want Edmund more than anything in the world and I think it's that - Her ambition for Edmund, there is no shaking it. Obviously she gets another proposals and everyone is like why would you not except that and I think it's beyond her core beliefs like it is for a lot of the other heroins, I've rejected this person because i want better for myself, Fanny is very much, I have rejected this proposal because I want Edmund. She just wants to be with him all the time, she is slightly obsessed with him to be totally honest with you and I thin that's why she's a Slytherin.
Caily
31:35 So interesting, yeah, i think the most poynient part of that argument for me is her resorcefullness, slytherins are the best at making a sitiutaion work for them, i think that definatiley speaks to mean and I think your right, she does have this one track mind on Edmund, where she just wants to be with him and be around him, although, when shes like that does she ever think she has a chance with him?
Izzy
32:16 Does she even care about that? It's kind of a weird thing, it's like a possessiveness as apposed to a love, it's like she's a house elf, she is just so devoted, it's like Dobby with Harry.
Caily
32:40 This is so interesting, you view her as, I'm seeing it on your face, creepy obsessive?
Izzy
32:50 Yeah, to be honest the more I read Mansfield Park the more I get the sense of her obsession for Edmund.
Caily
32:57 Yeah see from how I view her I see her as sort of angelic in a way, and your right, she is extremely resentful of Mary Crawford most of the time but in her defense I do think Mary Crawford is very patronising and she feels patronised by the whole family which can't feel good. That's such an interesting perspective.
Izzy
33:27 I've got another argument for Slytherin that you've just sparked inside of me, okay, so I think closer to the end of the book when she goes back to her family she makes at lot of sort of snobby remarks, and I think had she not been poor at birth and born into status i think she would have been a Slytherin through and through. I think even though she is the poor relative in the Burtram house she lives there for a few years and suddenly she feens this superiority over her family I think loves then but she seems to look down on their lifestyle and the way they live even though she's from that from that same lifestyle and I think that fact that she starts to believe that feeling about status again shows her more Slytherin traits.
Caily
34:20 My goodness, you've got a serious argument here, lets see what I was thinking about her, so - Okay so we both agree Hufflepuff, she has this moral conscience, she's focused on doing what's right, she’s intensely loyal to Edmund and loyalty is a judge part of Hufflepuff, she's patient when a lot of people, Mrs Norris, treats her horribly and hard working, quietly stoic and I put that she is more uncorruptable that anyone else around her. it's interesting to see your interpetation and then what I've put for her. I think she has some of the weaknesses of hufflepull in that she is a bit of a pushover and can be naive sometimes but then I put that she is a quiet gryffindor and that she reminds me of Nevill Longbottom a little bit, shy and introverted and so she doesn't stand up for herself when people say mean things to her but i think she stands up to others with her moral convictions. Like she was the one who said this isn't right about the play, your father is not going to condone this, for being in the position that she's in, the fact that she can stand up for what she belives is right is pretty impressive and to me that shows a lot of bravery I think. And it's a special kind of bravery and it reminds me of in boom one where Harry, Ron and Hermione are about to face the three headed dog and Nevill is in the entry way and he stands up and is like you cant do this, i think she has a quiet bravery which reminds me of Nevill, yeah those were my thoughts but I think i was really determined to see her in this angelic, cinderella type way but I didn't think about her level of resentment.
Izzy
36:33 It's okay, I think I have such a negative bias on Fanny, I'm sorry guys, like everyone must hear me talking about Fanny all the time like this girl is always hating on Fanny like what is going on. I do appreciate Fanny's good things, like you just said, her rejection of Mr Henry Crawford shows, her bravery and courage because it makes no sense for her to turn him down in the position that she's in and it's almost so much worse because she can't tell anyone the truth about why, it's not like I never want to marry like Emma, it's not like Elizabeth who knows she could never be happy with Mr Collins because they're so different in personality, there is no answer, us as readers, and fanny knows why but she can't say that to anybody but I think the conviction there, the quiet conviction that she can still hold her own.
Caily
37:38 I wish I had the exact quote but Edmund says something like Fanny was the one that always knew what was right, she was the only one that stood by what was right, so I feel like I'm going to have to stick with my Hufflepuff Gryffindor combonation but I am so intuiged by seeing how passionate you are about the Slytherin thing, i am gonna re-read Emma next but I think I'm gonna re-read mansfield park and be obervant of that and try and see Fanny through that lense because I think you're picking up on something I didn't see.
Izzy
38:24 Sometimes I worry I'm picking up on something nobody else is picking up on, which makes it seem like I have to deeprooted dislike for Fanny, I'm just out to get her.
Caily
38:34 You're not the only one, I think a lot of people are not huge fans of Fanny.
Izzy
38:40 Yeah, interesting - yeah re-read it and see if you can kind of see the elements that I was saying, I think she fights that side of her, absolutely but I think it's there and it would be interesting to see who Fanny would've bee in a different situation, had she been born into wealth I think she would've been a Slytherin.
Caily
39:02 I can see that, with what she does with what she does with her current circumstances, what defines her is that she was born with nothing financially so I think that would change things.
Izzy
39:23 I actually think it's her situation that makes her a Hufflepuff not her personality, like i think it's because she can't speak out to much, she has to have that sense of loyalty because they've done so much for her, even if they are horrible, that's like her lifeline, they changed her life and I think she values what they've done for her in that sense so i do wonder wether or not she's a Hufflepuff because of her situation.
Caily
39:52 This is my next re-read, I cannot wait to go back and re-read it with this new lense, It's going to be so much fun.
Izzy
40:06 Yeah, do it - That is everybody, we've done all of the heroins, that was so much fun though, I really enjoyed that and I would love to hear what people listening, like your thoughts guys, send us a message on instagram, me and Caily would love it - We like to be swayed if you've got another argument, if you think people should be in another house, we want to know.
Caily
40:30 Absolutely, particularly with Fanny now, I'm so intreated to see what house you think Fanny Price is in and I think we had such a hard time with Eleanore, I'd love to see your thoughts about Eleanore as well, I really sat with that one for a long time.
Izzy
40:45 Yes, that was a really tough one, I think to wrap things up it would be good to know what house you consider yourself to be in Caily, if you have a primary and a secondary?
Caily
40:56 I do, so I took the Pottermore test and I was sorted into Hufflepuff and when I talk to my friends about it I would say half think I'm a Hufflepuff and half think I'm Gryffindor, I think I am probably primarily Hufflepuff and secondary Gryffindor, how about you?
Izzy
41:21 That's so funny, i thought that about you myself, I was like, I think Caily is a hybrid between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor - On Pottermore my primary is Ravenclaw and I do think I'm a Ravenclaw through and through for secondary house I kind of think maybe Slytherin, it's really hard, I think maybe Slytherin because of the ambitious side of me but I could see why maybe I could have a secondary of Gryffindor because I have a really strong moral compass but also Hufflepuff because I'm quite sensitive, I don't know, I think potentially maybe Slytherin but I don't know, what do you think my secondary house is?
Caily
42:13 I immediately thought Ravenclaw that's an easy one and then secondary is a little harder I would've said Gryffindor I think you have a lot of bravery to you but I also know that you Identify heavily with Emma, you've said Emma is your favourite heroin and that you really identify with her and I see your ambition too so maybe your three like Eleanore.
Izzy
42:48 Yeah definitely, i think it's hard to find my secondary because I identify with a lot of Ravenclaw traits, like I don't know where to find the other, if your're in one of your houses come hit us up.
Caily
43:08 I think I've said this three times now but this was an absolute dream come true to mix Harry Potter and Jane Austen and again we would love to hear your thoughts please DM us, yeah, I want to hear from you.
Izzy
43:23 Yes so thank you Caily for joining me again, as always it's been a lot of fun - Do you want to just remind people where to find you?
Caily
43:32 Sure, so my instagram handle is @half_agony_half_hope and yeah, I post a lot of Jane Austen quotes and quotes I love from other authors and literature so-
Izzy
43:49 I love that, thank you so much and we will see you all in a new episode, Bye.