Episode 15: Disney Villains x Pride and Prejudice Villains with Ann from @paperheartslibary

In this episode we are matching Pride and Prejudice villains to Disney villains who share similar characteristics. 

Welcome to the fifteenth episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my friend and fellow Janeite Ann from @disneyprincesslessons and @paper.hearts.library. So many of you loved the Disney princess episode, so we thought we would come back and compare Jane Austen's villains to Disney Villains. Again we found so many fun cross overs, so if you love Austen and Disney this series is for you! In this episode we cover Pride & Prejudice: Wickham, Caroline Bingley + Mrs Hurst, Mr Collins and Lady Catherine.

Next month we will be covering Mansfield Park (ep 17) and Sense and Sensibility (ep 18)

Further Reading:
Disney Wiki Villains | Fandom
Jane Austen Runs my life Blog: Waiter there's some Disney to my Jane Austen
The Disney Book of Maps

Where can you find Ann?
@paper.hearts.library
@disneyprincesslessons
PrincessLessons YouTube Channel

Where can you find your host (Izzy)?
Website: www.whattheausten.com
Podcast Instagram: @whattheausten
Personal Instagram: @izzymeakin
Youtube: What the Austen? Podcast

This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way.

We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it.

Please follow and subscribe on your podcast app and on Youtube to keep up with all the upcoming episodes.

Some of the links I use will be affiliate links, you won't pay any extra but buying from the links helps the podcast grow. 

Transcript

Izzy Meakin  0:18  

Hi, Janeites sand welcome to episode 15 of the what the Austen podcast I'm excited to be joined again by Ann from @paperheartslibrary and @DisneyPrincesslessons. Ann was on in November, we did an episode where we compare Disney Princesses to Austen heroines. So welcome back and it's great to have you with me again. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited to chat with you again. It's so much fun last time, and thanks to everyone who listened. Yeah, so that was actually one of the most popular episodes of last year who we thought we'd come back, and we'd cover the villains and so we did make some honorary mentions in the Disney Princess episode. But we're gonna get into it in a little bit more detail today. So this is actually marking a change in the way that I'm going to bring you guys new episodes. So up until this point, the podcast is being monthly, I release new episodes each month. But I'm going to change the format slightly one because there's quite a big demand for more content. But also some of my episodes are, you know, over an hour long. And I know in terms of like day to day life, that doesn't always fit in. So you know, I'm trying to make the episodes now a little bit more digestible in the sense that you could listen to them on a dog walk or on your commute. So they'll still be the longer episodes coming out. So if you're like me and want to lose yourself for a good hour and a bit on a podcast, then that content will still be available. And content like that will be released as we go along. But I'm trying to find a happy balance. So yeah, this episode in particular, and there was so much content that we have. So we've decided to split it in two instalments. So basically, we'll have one come out this month, there'll be another episode this month as well, which won't be on the Disney stuff, because I've got a special bonus episode coming out. But there will be another two episodes in August, which will cover sound sensibility, and Mansfield Park. And then there'll be more episodes coming out as we go along, which will cover Mr. persuasion and Northanger Abbey. So loads of content to come from this. And I'm really excited to start releasing more episodes a month. And I really hope that you like this new format that I'm moving to I was going to wait till January, but I've decided to kind of move it ahead just because of this particular topic and how much we have to say about it. So yeah, we really hope that you're going to enjoy this series. So I was wondering, before we start on Do you have a favourite Disney villain.

Ann  2:41  

Um, I feel like my favourite Disney Villains very much connect to the villains that I've met in the Disney parks. I definitely am not one of the people who really gets into villains and loves them. I know a lot of people really get into them. But you know, because they are villains. I'm always rooting for the heroine to when in the princess movies especially. So my favourites kind of have come about because of those interactions in the parks. And I would say that is I would say that as much as I find guests on completely annoying in the movie. I really do enjoy him in the parks. He's fun to tease about books and he is kind of hilarious. So I would say he's my favourite, and also Cinderella's stepsisters. I do like them in the movies because they're so ridiculous and hilarious and they're a lot of fun to meet in the parks. If you're ever in the Disney parks. They will very much entertain you.

Izzy Meakin  3:34  

That's amazing. I love that. I think this steps this is a really cool because they are kind of redeemed in later films as well. I enjoy the two and three of the Cinderella series. I think they're really good. So always guys, if you listen to my episodes, I tend to start with Pride and Prejudice. So the first character that I've got on the list is gassed on and that's to go against Wycombe. So this is a comparison that we did making our Disney Princess episode and I think it was actually this character that sparked my kind of interest in doing this this villain episode. So I'll just kind of go off of some of the comments that I made in the last episode, but then also a few new ones that I that I had guests on basically is the main antagonist and buting the beast if you do need a reminder, he wants to marry Belle, but she's not interested because Gustavo is very. He's basically a self centred narcissist and that's not bells type. So really surprised to believe. But he's got so many similarities to Wickham, even just in appearance, they both have this kind of weapons obviously in the militia and they've have this military type attire. Both of them were red, which is really interesting because I knew that beating the beast is set in France and I swear the French uniform at the time would have been blue, but gas runs in red is that be cuz he's like he's meant to be maybe like a link towards like a British military background,

Ann  5:06  

I just read a really interesting book called celebrating Disney Princesses I want to say I can't remember the exact title of it. But for the Bucha, you read us on that I co hosted in October. And it's they really seem it had a lot of background on the stories. And they really seem to focus on the French history a little bit like they had interviews with the animators and stuff like that. But I also got this feeling that none of the animators were particularly historical. I mean, you can watch any Disney movie and see that so it wouldn't surprise me if they just thought a red is like an angry colour or like a villain type of colour. They didn't really go on with guests on but I feel like they just kind of mix up a lot of things or put a little bit of British history into almost any fairy tale that Americans love to do that we just love to just be like, Oh, this person's from, like another made up country or another, you know, somewhere in Europe, let's give them a British accent, or let's give them some British characteristics.

Izzy Meakin  6:03  

We're terrible about it. That's I usually serve funny. That's fair enough, then, you know, but definitely, they their outfits in themselves do look very similar. Um, it's good to do like maybe a comparison. If you look at the images online, that's what I did. I was looking at it and even in like appearances, in terms of like, they have dark hair. And, yeah, a lot of like, the actual exterior of them is very similar. But then also, there's a lot of similarities between their personalities. So really flirtatious, charming on the outside, this idea that women should want to be with them. Regardless, they're both really well spoken. And I think charismatic, which is definitely important. It's what laws people in and they're both pretty popular people within their towns. It's also interesting that they're both most of their stories are set in little towns. And we were saying this in the Disney Princess episode that the towns actually look quite similar when you start comparing them as well. I really do. Yeah, absolutely. And then my last thoughts on it is that Gaston is able to manipulate the villages into going after the beast. And I thought that was really similar to the way that Wickham influences the perception of Darcy in Meryton. So they've got this really have really good at manipulating and convincing people of their thoughts. I mean, you see so quickly with Elizabeth she absolutely buys into we can story and then we can start to tell other people. I think he tries it out of Elizabeth, how does they settle with her and then he starts to tell other people, and everyone feels sorry for him. And I think Gaston definitely has that same power to to draw people to his cause.

Ann  7:50  

Yeah, definitely, you know, and that's interesting, circling back even to our princess discussion that I don't know if we mentioned this or not, but it's interesting that Belle absolutely does not fall for it. But um, but Elizabeth does. That's one thing that they have. That's a little bit different.

Izzy Meakin  8:05  

Yeah, absolutely. It's so true. Did you have guests on in Wycombe as a comparison?

Ann  8:10  

I absolutely did. Yeah, it's so perfect. Pretty much my thoughts are almost exactly the same as yours. I thought that he was obsessed with superficial things. And everyone in town swoons over him. I think Wickham is definitely obsessed with superficial things and wanting to wanting money in a quick and easy way as possible. And it's not so much that guests on is wanting money, but he wants bell in a quick and easy way. Like he just thinks that he can kind of have he's entitled AI and exactly it has the exact same thought about how Wickham wants revenge on Darcy, in the same way that guests on wants revenge on the beast and he tries to make Darcy out to be a beast. So yeah, you pretty much covered everything. I thought so great minds think alike on that one.

Izzy Meakin  8:54  

Yeah, absolutely. That definitely one of the best matches, I think out of all of the research that I did that whenever like, it's an easy match to me. I'm just like, well, that's so similar.

Ann  9:05  

Did you have someone else for guests on? I mean, no. For guest on for Wickham. They're so similar.

Izzy Meakin  9:11  

The same person? I do. I actually have two more. So my second one is Dr. Facilier.

Ann  9:19  

If I said that, right. I think so. Yeah, I think so.

Izzy Meakin  9:22  

Okay, so Dr. Facilier is a voodoo doctor and the princess in the frog. That's actually my favourite Disney film, by the way. I really liked him as a villa. And I think he's really complicated. So I think he's quite a good one. But my comparison to him and Wickham is that a little bit more than gassed on Dr. familiares really calculated really deceitful. They both appear to be friendly and wanting to help at the start, which is a little bit like Wickham as well. It comes across friendly. You don't really see that darker side of them until it's exposed. They both have this card comparison. So like Dr. facili He's always using these like tarot cards or just general cards that he used for his food. Wiccans said to be a gambler. So I made that comparison. And they're both driven by money. So Wickham is constantly on the hunt for rich women he can marry and Dr. Facilier is actually wants all of the riches in the town. He's got his plan his entire plan is getting the money from Big Daddy I don't want Big Daddy's actually actual name is but basically by a lot of the characters, Big Daddy in the show, and he's got a lot of money. And Dr. Sileo wants that. And he also wants to take over the entire the whole of New Orleans. So he's got big plans. One of my more detailed comparisons between him and Wickham is that Dr. faciliated calls on his friends on the other side. And I think we kind of gave it the kind of some sort of spirit creature things that come up and they help him. But I thought that idea of friends on the other side that support him, I kind of made the link between a Wickham going to Darcy for funds. And that sense of the other side, a lot of people think of people who are richer than them. It's like, oh, what's life like on the other side, or that kind of thing? So I thought maybe a link between them would be that they have to look for finances and resources from somebody in a completely different situation to them. So I thought that was maybe a tie between the two.

Ann  11:31  

Yeah, I really liked that. I didn't think of that comparison was that villain at all? So I love that. That's great.

Izzy Meakin  11:38  

Oh, amazing. That makes me happy when we can like, you tell me something. I tell you something. I'm like, Wow, this actually, you know, I know. Give me new ideas.

Ann  11:48  

I know it can really get in the car. I love the car connection there. That is so good. I didn't think of that at all. And he is such a killer. Oh, I love it. That's a good one. Thank you. I

Izzy Meakin  11:57  

appreciate that. And then one last thing that he was gonna say about facilities, and his plan ends up failing because he thinks that Tiana will be easy to buy off. He thinks he'll just be able to offer her what she wants with her restaurants and everything and she'll go away. And I think that's very much like Wickham underestimating, Elizabeth. He thinks that even though she knows the truth, he'll he'll be able to worm his way back in like, well, we can still be friends and everything. Elizabeth like no, this is it for me. I'm sorry. I knew your true character.

Ann  12:29  

Yeah, exactly. No, that's really good. I like that.

Izzy Meakin  12:31  

Thanks. Um, do you want to give me one of your lists that you have for gastight?

Ann  12:35  

Yes. So I only had two for this one. Oh, my God. I know. I know they're so similar guests. I was just the perfect one. But another one that I made a connection with is Captain Hook. It seems a little strange, maybe but they do both wear red hat and get that red. I don't know Disney loves the red for the villain, I think or at least for these male villains. But you know, similar to your son, I mean, kind of arrogant. And what I really see is that Captain Hook is obsessed with revenge over someone who's very jealous of someone who has wronged him and while Peter Pan's wrong for those who need a refresher on on a Captain Hook and Peter Pan. I want to say this is right. I hope this is right. But it was something about that somehow Peter Pan cut off Captain Hooks hand, right, and he throw it to the crocodile and then the crocodiles like after Captain Hook for the rest of his life because he liked the taste of him so well, which just shows how like morbid like the old fairy tales, and the old Disney movies are like, when you watch the old ones, it's like this is really creepy. Anyway. So that's kind of hooks up backstory, Captain Hooks backstory. And I thought, well, it's, that is a little bit more of a true offensive thing to do. Even if they were in battle. It's still it's still kind of that similar thing. If there's something that happened in the past a perceived wrong or whatever that just absolutely obsessed with. And Captain Hook is like obsessed with Peter Pan in the same way that really Wickham is just obsessed with Darcy. I mean, it's like, you almost just want to be like, Come on, dude. Like move on, you know? And it's just even though nothing really like happened in these manipulated made everything up. It's just like he's, it's like he has this jealousy fixation. On Darcy. It was like he was so jealous that Darcy had everything that he wanted that he cannot rest and that I feel like that sort of the same was Captain Hook. And Peter Pan is very jealous of Peter Pan's youth. He's very jealous that everyone likes him. I feel like there's just a lot of it's very much rooted in the jealousy and also I just made me laugh a little bit thinking about how Captain Hook always says blast up peter pan. You can just picture Wickham going around and be like saying bless that Mr. Darcy.

Izzy Meakin  14:57  

You can just imagine to be at home with Lydia just like slugger. The door. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I know always gets me about Wickham is, Darcy actually does try to support him a lot of the time. It's just never enough. It's never enough for him. He wants to see him, like completely destroyed in a sense. Yeah, it wasn't enough to try and Marie Georgianna for the money it had that extra. I want to get back at Darcy.

Ann  15:27  

Well, and if you think about it, another comparison I had was Captain Hook. And Wickham is the way that Captain Hook uses Tinker Bell, who was you know, has a very close relationship with Peter Pan. And so it's very similar to the way that he sort of manipulates Elizabeth. I know it's not exactly acquainted. But there's, there's an element, there's an essence there, of both manipulating a female character that the male that they're jealous of, is close to or cares about.

Izzy Meakin  15:59  

That's such a good link. And you could also see Tinkerbell is Lydia, and then by capturing her, the hero kind of has to come forward and he has to rectify it to save. Yeah, like the female in that situation. Yeah, I lived out Captain hot link. I didn't make that comparison myself. But I think there's so many similarities there. That's great.

Ann  16:20  

I love when we can surprise each other and come up with these new angles. Like you said, like, no, it's

Izzy Meakin  16:25  

so good. Um, do you have anything else you want to add about caps in her coach days

Ann  16:29  

paid? I don't I don't, I'm excited to hear your next one.

Izzy Meakin  16:32  

Okay, so my next one is basically all around the gambling side, fricken, and I put up again, from before Christmas. So you can listen like this basement on the outskirts of Halloween Town. And his house is basically like a weird Casino. And he's very obsessed with gambling. He's a weird guy. And so basically, the, the gambling Link was one of the reasons. And the other was, I feel like they both have these covers that they hide behind. So use like a hessayon bug. And then eventually, he's exposed to being just basically built, built up of bugs. And I thought that's really similar to Wickham that he's kind of got this cover this persona of being a little bit more easy on the eyes. But then underneath, he's basically covered in bugs as well. He's, he's not a nice guy.

Ann  17:25  

That is a great comparison. I love it.

Izzy Meakin  17:29  

Thanks. So yeah, I thought that was a good kind of extra length I wanted to bring in. And again, as you were saying about that jealousy and that rivalry, you can definitely see that between Yugi and Jack. There's definitely that rivalry there. And that's similar to the Darcy Wickham rivalry.

Ann  17:49  

Yeah, I love that. That's a good one.

Izzy Meakin  17:51  

So yeah. Do you have any more comparisons to wicker?

Ann  17:55  

I wish I did. Those are the two that I had to do you have another one?

Izzy Meakin  17:59  

I don't know if all of mine up to Okay. Everyone's I'm glad that we had some different ones. That's amazing. Yeah, that's really fun. I love it. Great. So then next, Austen Avila and on my list is the notorious Caroline bangli. So do you want to kick things off for her?

Ann  18:18  

Yeah, sure. Well, I put Caroline Bingley and Mrs. Hurst together because to me there is no I just had one because there's just no other comparison. And I think I mentioned this in the other podcast, but they are Anastasia and Drizella. Like completely like, especially if you look at their 9095 Pride and Prejudice. They even give them a similar aesthetic. I was looking at some pictures. And there is a scene where Caroline is in that pee green sort of colour. One of her dresses is they were feathers on top of their head the way that the substance was doing, they're going to the ball. I don't think that Mrs. hearse wears pink but she does wear like a Coralie colour at some point. They've got the brown hair, the red hair. So just like appearance wise, I know I'm going by the 1995 Pride and Prejudice which we don't know exactly what they look like, in the book, but I just I just love aesthetically from the movie to movie to movie. I love that. And then I just I feel like, you know, just their jealousy, their pettiness, their childishness, the way that they have to laugh about Elizabeth's fine eyes and just everything that they do is so forced and awkward. Like it like you're almost always so second hand embarrassed. For Caroline the way she tries so hard, especially in the book. Like I feel like in some ways, it can be worse in the books than it is in the movies. But just as a way she's like, trying to read his letters and like over his shoulder and saying is is Joe John as tall as I am? And you know, oh, Joe, John. I love her. She's just it's just trying so hard. And that's exactly what the stepsisters do. And while they are actually talented at at singing and playing music, unlike The stepsisters, there's still a show off Enos because the stepsisters have no idea that they're untalented. I guess you can compare them to to Mary Bennett there. But, but still, there's a show off Enos and the fact that they do both play piano misses her son Caroline and the stepsisters, even though obviously the Bingley's are more talented than just as a comparison, trying to think if I had anything else with them, but I just I feel like they probably fit the Disney Austen villain comparison. Just like so well, and there's just so jealous of of Elizabeth like every little thing and it's so obvious it's exactly the same way and they want to as the stepsisters with Cinderella, and the way that they treat her like a maid is the same way that they want to treat Elizabeth even though they can't treat her like a maid. They definitely treat her when she's houseguests as if she is kind of unwanted and lower class and, oh, I can't believe her. Her him is. What is it her him or her petticoat? Something is six inches deep in mud. So it's very similar to the way that it's similar to the way that stepsisters ridicule Cinderella, like they're so jealous of her dress when going to the ball, that they rip it apart. And so it's a metaphorical ripping apart of the way Elizabeth dresses and the way that she does things.

Izzy Meakin  21:21  

Yeah, absolutely. I have a quote as well, from Carolyn Findlay that says, This is referring to Elizabeth, it seems to me to show an abominable sort of conceited independence and most entry town in deference to decorum. It's just like you said, it's just like looking down on her and they have to make these snide comments all the time. And you think they're in such a better situation than Elizabeth just because of their status. That is why do they take such time? And is that jealousy is that threat, so threatened by Elizabeth, and that is so similar to the sisters. You're right. And I'm

Ann  21:57  

not sure I'd have to look this up. I don't know that Lady Tremaine was she nobility, but I don't know if she married into nobility with Cinderella's father or she was already like, Whatever, whatever her title was for Lady Tremaine. I'm not sure but it still feels like there was. There's a phrase colourful phrase my grandmother used to say, of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And basically, that's kind of like what the stepsisters you feel as if they think of them as silk purse, think of themselves as silk purses, but they are quite pig's ears. And so if you think about it, if you think about it, it's a little bit like Caroline and Mrs. Harris, because they look down on Elizabeth, but they think their money comes from trade, you know, they go back to their just trades people. And they're not really anything that special, and they've just forced their way into society. And so there's just this kind of feeling that and I don't know if it's true, but there was always this feeling to me when I watched Cinderella and especially when you watch Cinderella 2015, the live action version, you get this feeling that Cinderella has more class, emotionally speaking, or manners than the stepsisters. And it's sort of the same thing with Elizabeth like she doesn't have to try very hard to be classy in a sort of the way that she presents herself, I guess, sort of ways such

Izzy Meakin  23:28  

a good point. And as such, there's like a natural elegance to them that the stepsisters and the Bingley sisters, no matter how hard they try, they just wouldn't have in their jealousy makes it worse, I think. Yeah, exactly. That's amazing. I 100% have them on my list. It's such a good comparison. For all the same reasons that you had. I don't have anything else to add on that. It's such a good, such a good link. Do you have anything else you want to add on that one? Or do you want me to one of mine? Yeah, I'd love to hear one of yours. Okay, so for Caroline, I actually put the Evil Queen. That's sue the Evil Queen from Sue why she's motivated by being the fairest of them all. After discovering from the mirror that Snow White is in fact, the fairest of them all. And this sends her into a jealous mission where she's determined to get rid of Snow White so that she can take that place. And yeah, basically, it's because of that, that jealousy last name jealousy as why I've compared the two and from the outside. The queen is very calm and regal and sophisticated. And I think Caroline does a good job of putting on a kind of a even though I think she goes too far with it and it's almost like caricature but she comes across as she's like, I'm very pleased I'm you know, this woman in society, blah, blah, blah. But then inside she's very hateful and cold and I'm jealous of Elizabeth. And I think it's like a ruthless jealousy as well. Because if you look how far Caroline goes to remove Bingley, and Darcy from the situation where she sent the letter to Jane basically trying to tell during that being like he's not interested in whatsoever and she's more interested. He's more interested in Georgiana Darcy, all for her own means because she wants to marry Darcy. I think that there's definitely a ruthlessness there to her, which is very similar to the evil queen, the lengths that she'll go to get rid of Snow White, and yeah, that I thought that was quite a strong, strong link between the two.

Ann  25:41  

Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's really good. I thought of another one that, I thought well, do you have any more thoughts that you want to add to that before I say anything else? I didn't want it.

Izzy Meakin  25:50  

No, absolutely not. That was everything I wanted to say on the Evil Queen.

Ann  25:55  

That actually made me think because I didn't have it on my list. But it actually sparked for me how I could see a little bit of Maleficent for Caroline, because it's the same sort of jealousy, and the same sort of a little bit Regal, I'm better than everyone calmness calculated cruelty. But so the thing that I thought of, it's kind of a stretch, but I thought of this comparison. So Maleficent is motivated by jealousy. To put a curse on Sleeping Beauty put her in a sleeping curse. While I think she's actually says she'll prick her finger on the spindle of a spinning wheel and die. And this varies put a spell on sleeping beauty so that the curse won't be death, but sleep. And but the comparison that I'm seeing is Jane Bennett is such a sweet, kind, tame person, kind of like Sleeping Beauty. And Caroline effectively puts her in a metaphorical sleeping curse by kind of cutting everything off between Jane and her brother, so I could see a little bit of that comparison. And just the way that she steals away Maleficent steals away Prince Philip, who Sleeping Beauty is in love with it sort of like kept keeping Bingley captive away from Jane. So

Izzy Meakin  27:12  

as the new that's such a good link.

Ann  27:17  

Yeah, I thought I just wasn't very eloquent. But I just thought of it off the top of my head. Would you send the Evil Queen? I was like, oh, Melissa, it kind of has similar similar qualities, too. So

Izzy Meakin  27:27  

no, that's amazing. I love that. That's a great one. And I think that was all of my thoughts on Caroline Bingley. Did you have any others that you wanted to add? No, that was it. The next person on my list for Pride and Prejudice is Mr. Collins. I feel feel like backwards and forwards were for No, he's a villain. I knew Kaylee, who I have on the pod quite often. From half hugging me half hope she's adamant that he's a villain. She feels very strongly about it. So

Ann  27:57  

I do worry that he Yeah, I agree that he's a villain. And I'll say more about this later. But I feel like he kind of has like villain sidekick vibes, like Lady Catherine bill, and so I can kick back.

Izzy Meakin  28:07  

I love that. Oh, my gosh, I'm excited to hear yours in a second. Because that's that's the idea. I've got one comparison for Colin. So I'll tell you which mine is. So my comparison was the chief of Wesselton, from Frozen, or weasel town is people seem to joke to him all the time. So basically, he turns up to Arendelle because he wants a trade deal with them. And when that doesn't really work out too much. He turns quite sinister when Elsa gets frightened and starts freezing things. And I thought he was very similar to Collins when you actually watch the film. When he turns up at the start, he actually says, this is the duke he says, Open those gates so may expose your secrets and unlock your riches. And then he goes, Oh, did I say that out loud? And I thought that's so Collins, even though Collins doesn't have the ability to check himself is that unfiltered madness when they need things that just totally unacceptable. Obviously, Collins's comments on Lydia when she runs away, and that he constantly goes on about the fact that he's gonna inherit the estate and he's just like, totally unchecked. And I thought that so similar between the two of them, and also, you'll have like, you have to rewatch frozen to really see this. But I think in his introduction to Elsa and Ana, it's in a bowl, and he goes up to them and basically wants to dance with Elsa. And he does this like crazy dance to try to entice her in and then else is like, oh, no, I didn't chance but you could dance of honour instead. And then I'm just like, oh, no, I don't want to dance with him. But their dance scene together is very Collins Elizabeth. Awkward. He just, he just like this chicken move. He's just so funny. But I feel that's so similar to the colons Elizabeth dance. And so yeah, you have to rewatch for reason.

Ann  30:08  

It's really pro like, gosh, oh my gosh, I did not think of that one. But as soon as you said it, that dance started playing in my mind. And I really want someone to make a fan edit where they've got Collins dancing on one side of the screen, and then Duke of Wesselton dancing on the other side. And it's almost like, You're so right. It's almost like Elizabeth and Jane because it's like Jane isn't available. So go down to the younger sister, Elizabeth. This is so good. I love this. It's so fun. Exactly.

Izzy Meakin  30:38  

It was always like, Oh my gosh, that's so light. And the whole chain situation where he kind of goes to Mrs. Danny, he's like, gonna be with Jane. She's like, she's not available anymore. We'll go from there. To in person when he pops up and does that. So? Yeah, that was just

Ann  30:53  

kiss chef's kiss for that comparison. I did not think of it. And I love it so much.

Izzy Meakin  31:00  

Very good. That is my Collins filling comparison of I'd love to hear yours. Well, I have several.

Ann  31:07  

But I felt like each one kind of had an aspect of of Collins, but I love the Duke of Busselton that is great. So I'll kind of just go through the ones that I have and kind of the aspects that I think that they have. So I My first one was a Smee, who was a sidekick to Captain Hook. And if you don't remember the movie, he's kind of short. And he's kind of bumbling. And he's kind of silly, just like, just like colons and he's a real kiss up. And I thought he was kind of a sycophant. And the way that the way that lady sorry the way that Collins is to Lady Catherine, and just he's just always trying to I don't know he's kissing up to him. That's just the best way to describe it. He's always kissing up to him, but he's really awkward and nervous. And he's doing things that that he thinks are you know the are wrong and he's kind of panicking over things like I feel like Collins is really hyper and you see it especially I'm going more from the movie than anything I can't remember how much this is in the book but and then it 95 movie one of my favourite scenes is when Lady Catherine is coming and he just gets really hyper news just like my dear let me case Make haste Lady Catherine is here. Sort of. That's sort of the way that's me is about Captain Hook. Like he's always trying to he's sort of his second in command. And he's always trying to tell the other pirates what to do on the ship and kind of like, you know, making sure like Captain Hook isn't upset because he knows that Captain Hook has this temper and and there's a scene where he is shaving Captain Hook but when he looks away, I don't know if you remember the scene but a seagull ends up settling on Captain Hooks head. It's like he's wrapped his head in a towel and the seagull ends up settling on his head and he starts shaving the seagulls behind and then the seagull flies away like freaks out and flies away when he isn't paying attention. And then and then he thinks he's cut off the captain's head and it's just the way he panics about that just reminded me of the same way that that Collins is always panicked about like oh Lady Catherine Catherine so that was that was a part of him that I thought connected.

Izzy Meakin  33:17  

I love that by surgery you and you talking about it in the way that he does fret about everything else like that is so similar to Collins. Yeah, absolutely.

Ann  33:27  

And then I had another sidekick that I thought reminded me of Mr. Collins which is love foo because I it's kind of the same reason that he does me he's a kiss up and I should I should say that if you don't remember the fool who is guests on sidekick and Beauty and the Beast and he just thinks guests on it's the greatest in the same way that Mr. Collins thinks Lady Catherine is the greatest and he's always kind of like pumping guests on up like when he's feeling low which is exactly what Lady Catherine does. And you kind of get this feeling that maybe look fu like even comes up with things you know ahead of time that he's just kind of gotten his bag that you know he can say all of these like little niceties to guests on in the same way that Mr. Collins you know likes to make up little kind of have little things ahead of time to say to her and okay this is kind of a weird one but in the live action feeding the beasts they played with this more where they made lifou almost like he was kind of in love with guests on and I learned like I feel like Mr. Collins is kind of a little bit in love with Lady Catherine like you know weird way not like he would really marry her but just that like he's that level of obsessed with her. And then also I just I love like thinking about like the Disney scenes and putting Austen characters into those scenes. Can you imagine like the tavern scene when love foo is singing? You know no one fights like guests are no one's deck is is credibly thickets guests on can you imagine like Mr. Colin saying no one has a chimney piece at Rosings is great Is Lady Catherine like singing a whole song about her? You know, we're talking about like, no one would be a true proficient at piano. She really practice like Lady Catherine. I would love to see

Izzy Meakin  35:13  

Oh my god. Yeah, please, somebody made

Ann  35:17  

someone please make a parody mash up. I would love that.

Izzy Meakin  35:22  

That's amazing. No, there's such a good link. Yeah. 100%. I

Ann  35:26  

agree. I actually had two more. But I have quick things to say about those. So I had Frollo from the Hunchback of Notre Dom, who was kind of the evil priest. He I think, kills quasi motos there as a, as an abomination or something. And, and you know, he's really cruel. And so Collins really isn't cruel, but just the fact that they were both members of the clergy. And I thought that they both really, in completely different ways try to justify themselves as being pious and morally above others follow in a very evil way. And Collins in a very pompous silly way, but they still think that they're morally better than other people. And then I'll just go ahead for the last one, because it's just a short comment on this, but I thought of Lucifer, the cat from Cinderella. He is a lady domaines cat. And he's just kind of a little smug little bully. But it just made me think of how he's a smug little pet Lady Tremaine and Mr. Collins is kind of the smug little pet Lady Catherine.

Izzy Meakin  36:34  

I live that No, both of those. Yeah, the was the guy called in for like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The Forli link is really good actually, with it. The fact that they're both priests, I 100%. Agree. And also the Lisa thing, I can totally get that he's definitely likely to Catherine's pet, that's for sure. No, that's great. That's amazing. Okay, I'm happy to move on to the last villain that I've got for Pride and Prejudice. And that is Lady Catherine herself. So I really struggled with this one. Actually. I only actually have, I mean, I have a couple but none of them are like substantial. So the first one that I put for Lady Catherine was lots of hugging bear from twistorial. I like that. That's interesting. Yeah, just because he's like this older character. And he's pretty much a dictator in the nurseries. Yeah, it's very similar to Lady Catherine. She's a bit of a dictator. So yeah, a bit of a short comparison, but I kind of found links there. Another one that I had was Maleficent. The fact that Lady Catherine actually holds a lot of power. And she's upset if she isn't involved in minor things. So obviously, Maleficent isn't invited to the party. And that really upsets her. And then lady Catherine's upset if she's not involved in conversations, or she doesn't know what's going on with people. So I thought that was quite Oh, boy, yeah, that only was I had First Lady Catherine. I did struggle with it a little bit. Yeah. Well, who did you have? For Lady Catherine?

Ann  38:15  

She was she was a tough one. I struggled with it a little bit too. But I was kind of looking through. I had a we talked about this earlier, we both had a Disney Villains list. And we're kind of going back and forth between our lists for Austen and the Disney Villains and kind of trying to figure out these comparisons. And so my first initial impulse was Lady Tremaine, especially with that, like Lucifer, the cat comparison and how she pushes her daughter on Darcy, and feels very entitled to Darcy for her daughter in the same way that Lady Tremaine feels entitled to the prince for her daughters. And so I feel like that that was my first impulse, but I found that I really liked and see what you think of this, but it's a little bit. It's a little bit interesting, but the queen of hearts from Alice in Wonderland, I felt like well, I should explain the Queen of Hearts. Have you ever seen Alice in Wonderland for a while, she is a very bossy, tyrant Queen, who basically wants to chop everyone's heads off if they irritate her. And so that's I kind of feel like that's how Lady Catherine is. She's impatient. she's bossy she acts like a brat even though she's way too old for her behaviour, which is exactly what the queen of hearts so she's very bratty has to have her way or Off with their heads. She's moderately nice to Elizabeth at first in the same way that the Queen of Hearts when she first meets Alice she invited her to play croquet and she's you know, she's moderately nice to her, but when she suspects I think it's where she suspects that Alice has helped to the playing cards. Paint the roses red. I really it's been a while since I've watched Alice in Wonderland. I can't remember what the final straw is that makes her mad at Alice but she puts Alice on trial and you know, and she's she just turns against her completely and I Is that Well, that's exactly what Lady Catherine does to Elizabeth when she shows up long born, and she kind of puts her on trial in that same way and she's ready to chop off her head metaphorically speaking.

Izzy Meakin  40:12  

Do that. So true? Yeah, I think she she thinks that it was Alice that trips are up during the game, and then she hits her head. Who's flipping crazy about it? Yes,

Ann  40:23  

that's what it is. You're right. You're right. I couldn't remember I need to rewatch it.

Izzy Meakin  40:27  

New, new. Absolutely. She just she's like, the initial thing that makes it angry is about the roses been painted. And she thinks that Alice has done that. So that's so true. Like that. Like the buildup of anger in this one thing that makes her snap. And then that's Yeah, it's like, Lady Catherine rocking up to Elizabeth's house. Ready to give her a bit of a lecture? Yeah.

Ann  40:47  

And they're both out in Queens of their own domain,

Izzy Meakin  40:50  

you know? So true. Oh, my gosh, and another link now that you you said that is, um, you knew the Queen of Hearts has her husband and he's like that tiny person that follows you around? That's so like, Collins.

Ann  41:02  

That is oh my gosh, that's so great. I love it.

Izzy Meakin  41:06  

So funny. Are they That's so great. Um, do you have any of us for Lady Catherine? That's it. Yeah. Amazing. No, I love that. I think that's everyone for Pride and Prejudice. Did you have any other thoughts on that book and the villains? Oh, not too much. I

Ann  41:23  

think we already covered it in the princess podcast where we talked a lot about just the similarities to Beauty and the Beast. I think that that's still the the biggest comparison movie if we wanted to go movie to movie.

Izzy Meakin  41:35  

Yeah, absolutely. I definitely agree. In so many ways, but yeah, but definitely the Disney Princess episode. Like if you're enjoying this comparison, and you haven't listened to that episode. 100% recommend it. We did it last November. So yeah, go back and listen to that one. It's really fun doing these comparisons. So that wraps up the episodes today, and we'll be back in August with two more instalments. So here's a sneak peek of what is yet to come things. Our next book on my list, though, is

Ann  42:03  

Mansfield Park thought about Ursula before she turns into Vanessa and it's

Izzy Meakin  42:08  

that entitlement she thinks that she's superior to Cinderella and so does Mrs. Norris like a little bit shocked that he was as bad as he was making people feel love and then he's also very good at turning that into somebody else. And they

Ann  42:20  

found a very kind of obscure villain the ringmaster from Dumbo

Izzy Meakin  42:24  

love that that's amazing. Such a good one was great. Thank you. 

Izzy Meakin  42:25

Head over to my Instagram at what the Austen for all the updates and for all of us info that will be in the bio. So go ahead and check all of her content out. Her YouTube stuff is great and also on Instagram as well. So I will see you in the next episode.