Episode 17: Disney Villains x Mansfield Park Villains with Ann from @paperheartslibary

Welcome to the seventeenth episode of the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host Izzy, and I am joined by my friend and fellow Janeite Ann from @disneyprincesslessons and @paper.hearts.library. We are back and today we are covering the villains in  Jane Austen's  Mansfield Park and comparing them against Disney Villains.

Don't miss out on our episode where we covered Pride and Prejudice villains (Ep 15)  or our Disney Princesses x Jane Austen Heroine Episode.

This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way.

We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it.

Next we will be covering Sense and Sensibility (ep 18)

Further Reading:
Disney Wiki Villains | Fandom
Jane Austen Runs my life Blog: Waiter there's some Disney to my Jane Austen
The Disney Book of Maps

Where can you find Ann?
@paper.hearts.library
@disneyprincesslessons
PrincessLessons YouTube Channel

Where can you find your host (Izzy)?
Website: www.whattheausten.com
Podcast Instagram: @whattheausten
Personal Instagram: @izzymeakin
Youtube: What the Austen? Podcast

Please follow and subscribe to keep up with all the upcoming episodes.

Transcript

Episode: 17 Disney villains x Mansfield Park Villains

Ann, Izzy Meakin

Izzy Meakin  00:00

Hi janeites If you're listening please follow and subscribe. It really helps to grow the podcast and for me to bring you more episodes 

Hi, Janeites and welcome to episode 17 of the what the Austen podcast and is back with me today as we continue our Disney villain times Austen villain series. So welcome back. And hey, I'm so excited to be here. Yes, absolutely. And last month myself an animal on and we cover Pride and Prejudice and the villains within that book. So we're going to carry on with our comparisons. And I think the next book on my list is Mansfield Park. Do you have any general thoughts that you want to add on either the Disney Villains or awesome villains?

Ann  00:57

Yeah, so one thing that I was thinking about when I was putting my thoughts together for this is that the Disney Villains are very active. They're very scheming and their teams are often very external and based on a big epic battle. And the awesome villains are very subtle and manipulative with their schemes. And they're kind of working within the framework of societal rules. And I once listened to a lecture on Austen novels. And I want to say it was Stanford University, it was a podcast that I found, and I cannot remember the professor's name. But it was about how Austen novels are emotional Kung Fu and all of the battles happen in this subtle emotional way where the consequences are life and death, but in an emotional way, or in a societal way, such that it for instance, and Sense and Sensibility. Eleanor and Marianne, if they don't marry well, they could be completely cast off. And you know, and impoverished in society, they nearly are, in a way where that where we see them begin in the cottage, but it's always kind of that life or death of like, if I don't marry well, what's going to happen to me? So I think that's I Miss Bates is a great example of that. So so it's kind of interesting comparing, it's like an internal and external kind of villainy.

Izzy Meakin  02:13

Yeah, absolutely. No, that's, that's such a great point. And just off that, when I was researching as well, what I realised is, the villains often in Austen just seem to be able to get on with their life, they don't necessarily suffer severe consequences themselves solely themselves. So for instance, like in a lot of Disney films, the villains are like destroyed, like Ursula, she stabbed with a boat, and then she like turns into one of her weird little worm fishes. And there's quite often that they're basically whatever their plot was, kind of destroys them in the end, or that kind of worst characteristics are what destroys them. Whereas a lot of the villains like Wickham and Willoughby, they just go on continuing their lives, often in maybe a financially better situation than they were when they started. So I don't feel like they personally suffer that many consequences. I feel like they leave a lot of destruction in their way. It's not as clean cut as is Disney. That was just my my thought on it.

Ann  03:12

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And that gave me a thought I'd love to ask you see what you think. But would you say that they're better off a lot of times financially, but maybe not better off emotionally? Because will it be as in an unhappy marriage? Or maybe even romantically, we want to say, will it be an unhappy marriage? Trying to think of I'm trying to think of other What do you think of that? Do you think that they're unhappy in the end?

Izzy Meakin  03:39

Yeah, I think so. But I think the worst thing about it is they often drag other people into it. I mean, it's not so bad, like the Willoughby Miss Grayson screw is actually a pretty not that nice person in her own right. But when I think about Lydia, even though she is daft, and she's quite spoiled, and it's hard to feel sorry for her in a lot of ways. I do think she deserves to have the unhappiest marriages which I can imagine it would be with Wickham because I can't see him changing his character just because he's he's married to Lydia. I think he'll still gamble. He'll still sleep with the daughters of the town and just continue to be the villain that he always was. So yeah, I agree, though. I think it's maybe more emotionally they do suffer in a sense, as well, like later.

Ann  04:31

Yeah, I know. It's not enough. I feel like Lady lady Kassar, for example, is very unhappy by the end she's very put out.

Izzy Meakin  04:40

Quite put out. No, that's so true. I definitely agree. And maybe you know, what's worse, maybe maybe we'll have you would prefer to be one of like a weird cya at the bottom of the ocean as opposed to married to Ms. Grey and unhappy but who knows. That's very true. Are you foofy so the first character the first villain, Austen villain I have is Mrs. Norris, who is a nasty woman. She is phonies, ons, and basically the primary source of phonies, unhappiness. She self centred and self righteous and superficial and just all around that a nice, nice woman, which is super solid because she's actually the person that wants funny to come and live with them in the first place. So it's very strange. Yeah, it's very strange. But I only actually have one comparison for Mrs. Norris. And that's Lady Tremaine, who's evil stepmom, obviously, and Cinderella. We've talked about her a couple of times. But it's basically the way that she treats funny is very similar to the way that leaves for me and treats Cinderella, basically, like a servant at the end of the day. And again, it's that entitlement. She thinks that she's superior to Cinderella, and so does Mrs. Norris. It's as if funny is kind of a burden. And I think they see that with Cinderella as well. And Mrs. Norris is just like, she has like her focus is fully on the Bertram sisters and Mariah in particular, and finding her a good husband, it totally all backfires. And she actually ends up going to live with Mariah, the end of the book when she's disgraced. But yeah, that was my comparison. Did you have that on your list? Or do you have any of those?

Ann  06:30

Yeah, no, I had to, but that was that was my top one because I absolutely see. Mansfield Park as a Cinderella story. I think I mentioned that before. I just wonder if Austen had that in the back of her mind or if it really was just subconscious. But I'm sure that, you know, Austen would have read fairy tales. I mean, the period, those classic fairy tales, I think were becoming popular and published in the 1716 or 1700s. I want to say, but I do wonder if she had that a little bit in mind. But either way, I definitely see it as a Cinderella story. And they're both sadistic relatives. You know, I mean, one is through marriage, but they're both the distant relatives to want to treat the heroine as the maid, basically. I mean, she really treats. Mrs. Norris really treats Fanny as the maid. So I think that's spot on. I don't really have much to add because you covered it. So well. I did have one other Do you want me to go ahead with that one? Yeah, I'll

Izzy Meakin  07:27

just one other point that I was just thinking about you Tremaine is, her brutality starts when her husband dies. And I think that's the same number. So it's actually when her husband dies that she starts to more sadistic and

Ann  07:40

cruel, yeah, no, I like that. And you know, the 2015 Cinderella, which I think is absolutely fantastic. And very kind of Regency ish period drama ish. If you if anyone hasn't seen it, I recommend it. But I feel like they really play a lot more with that. embittered widow sort of, you know, jealous hearted narcissist kind of personality with Lady Tremaine. And I think that I've kind of just always wondered, I mean, Mrs. Norris is such a conundrum sometimes the way that she wants Fanny, but you just almost think of it as maybe sort of a narcissistic thing that she doesn't feel like she has a lot of power in her life. She's no longer a wife, she's, you know, her husband's back, almost like she just wants someone to boss around for lack of a better term, and just someone to manage and just to sort of make herself feel better, like, you know, like a, like a whipping boy, if you will, you know?

Izzy Meakin  08:32

Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's as if they've no longer got anything to occupy their time, and they need to curse and it become this kind of what they consider the poorer relation in the house. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Which other ones, Mrs. Norris.

Ann  08:48

My other one is actually Aunt Sarah from Lady in the tramp, and I feel like she's maybe a little bit more obscure. So if you haven't watched lady in the tramp, or you haven't watched it for a while. Lady in the tramp is, is about two dogs, late in the one lane lady and one named tramp, one from trampas from the wrong side of the tracks and Lady is sort of like the elegant pampered cocker spaniel dog. And she calls for the tramp but part of I oh gosh, I want to say I think that's how she meets a tramp is because Aunt Sarah is so cruel to her so lady is very pampered by her people, her humans and they have a baby and they go away on a trip and so Aunt Sarah comes to take care of the baby and she really does not like dogs. She just does not feel as if you know Lady is worthy of her time. She doesn't think that she should be in the house. She really miss treats her and so she kind of I feel like Mrs. Norris kind of tries to metaphorically muzzle Fanny in the way the Aunt Sarah actually puts a legitimate muzzle on Lady like she puts an actual muzzle on her face and just kind of really mistreats her and Miss treats her like a dog I mean for I mean, for lack of a better better term. And also I feel as if Mrs. Norris ons over Mariah and Julia in the same way aunt Sara fawns over her cats and she's got these two cats that she brings with her and she loves those cats. She thinks they could do no wrong. They're precious babies, but they're actually sinister and evil. And so every time answer is back is true. They're creating chaos and blaming it on on ladies, a cocker spaniel dog. And I just I just saw a lot of comparisons with the treatment between the two. I love that

Izzy Meakin  10:41

it has been interesting that she has kind of like those two things that she's like he said, like I'd like loves more than anything. And yeah, that's so good. And it's interesting that they are kind of a little bit more mischievous. And Mariah. It goes a little bit too far in the future. But yeah, and aren't nurse would never blame them for anything. It would always be funny. Like, why Yeah, doing this for your, your cousins. They're so nice to you that kind of thing. So yeah, that's great. That's a great comparison. For sure.

Ann  11:10

Thanks. That was fun. Yeah. Um, okay,

Izzy Meakin  11:14

the next Austen villain on my list is Mary Crawford. And I kind of I'm an Oliver and Mary is a villain. I have mixed feelings about it. Because I do quite like Mary's a character. I think she's really interesting. But I do understand why a lot of people think she's a villain. I think by the end, she does really expose her darker side, when she kind of blames Fannie for the reason that Maria and Henry run off together, which absolutely makes no sense whatsoever. But she definitely does show that darker side and her more materialistic side that kind of thing does make her stand out more as a villain. I only have one link for her though. And the person that I chose is actually Ursula and I chose Ursula when she transforms into the seductive brunette to marry Eric. So a couple of reasons why one is they're both musical even though Ursula kind of stole that from Ariel. They both have like this musical ability. Like he she comes out with the see thing and so that it draws Eric in. And then also if you are going to play devil's advocate and and suggest that Edmund just doesn't recognise his feelings for funny that are always there. You could say that Mary actually blinds Edmund to his feelings to for funny and also US law blinds literally blinds Eric, to his feelings for Ariel. So I thought that is similarity between them as well. So yeah, I don't know if you had a slot

Ann  12:43

on your list or who asked you have salutely Yeah, absolutely. had hers is half of my list. I love it. Great minds. And it was the same thing. I think Vanessa is the is the seductress she turns into. But, so I had a lot of the same points as you. I love everything that you said. And I have a couple of things to add. I thought about Ursula before she turns into Vanessa the way that she tries to pretend she wants to help Ariel by helping her get Eric and I know it's different because it's like Mary's wanting to pretend like she wants to help. I guess she's not really pretending but it's like for her own selfish reasons. She wants to help Fanny get Henry or something or she wants Fanny with Henry. So it's just a little bit like she kind of tries to be like a friend and Ursula is tries to act like you know, oh, I just want to help you. It's what I live for. Like, you know, I live people, poor unfortunate souls. And you kind of get this idea that you know, Mary does think of a lot of people as poor unfortunate souls compared to her she thinks well of herself. And and so yeah, everything else that everything else that I said, you know, just is exactly what you said was when she turns into Vanessa, I love that. Like, the metaphor I love just like putting in like the metaphorical blinding and the and the actual cursing. It's kind of cool that comparison.

Izzy Meakin  14:04

Yeah. 100%. And also, I think, again, if you're gonna play devil's advocate, you could say that because Mary is such a prominent voices. There's a strong character in the book, she almost silences funny in many ways. And that's very similar. So obviously, just silence area.

Ann  14:21

Yeah, that's great. And it is when when Mary comes into the picture, you know, Fanny's quiet character anyway. But she, you know, Mary writes her horse, then, you know, she does all of these things where it's, you know, Fanny is really put in a silent background kind of position.

Izzy Meakin  14:37

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. It's such a great one. So do you have any others for Mary Crawford?

Ann  14:45

Yes. So this one's just a minor one that's just sort of two parts of this person that they thought really went well with her. For me. I feel like Mary is a villain because I feel like she really lacks empathy. And I feel like that is shown when she sort of wishes that Edmunds brother would die, so that admin could inherit the estate and she can marry Edmund. And I thought, Gosh, that really I remember reading that and I thought, gosh, she's kind of a sociopath like, that's really, that's really lacking in empathy there, just to get what she wants. And so, I the comparison that I made is to Cruella Deville from 101 Dalmatians and you know, if you don't watch it for a while she is this faux sophisticated person who kind of sweeps into a room in the same way I picture Mary sleeping into a room and she's always saying, and Anita darling, and you know, and things like that. And I feel like I can see that part of me. Yeah, I can see that part of Mary She just seems like she sleeps into a room and just has that kind of like, devil may care, you know, sort of thing. But you know, Cruella is a really creepy villain because she literally wants to skin Dalmatian puppies and make coats out of them. And so while Mary maybe isn't that lacking empathy, there's a lot of clues that she doesn't have a lot of empathy. And I feel like Cruella, you know what you might say all the other villains don't have empathy. I feel like a lot of the other villains have more of an origin story where it's like something horrible happened to them. And I know that I haven't watched Corolla. Yes, I know. Supposedly, she has his origin story now. But if we're just looking at the cartoon, I feel like she just did sociopath or a psychopath. And she literally just want she just doesn't see puppies as important. She wants to skin them. Well skin them for her coats. And so I just see like the the comparison, no empathy there.

Izzy Meakin  16:34

I love that. No, I love the detail that you've looked at there. The fact that she just made that comment about the eldest brother dying is really dark. really twisted, isn't it? Frank's Yeah. As me going, like, I don't really see her as a villain. She's like, I want to kill off people. Well, and

Ann  16:49

I know, like, if you look at the regency era, I feel like people in different eras had like different perceptions about death. And maybe that was more, you know, had to do with like, a more wildly heightened, you know, Christian belief of feeling like, Oh, they're just going on to heaven. And so you they're going to something better, so we don't really have to worry about them if they died. I don't really know. Because it just seems more kind of like, the people don't. I mean, I know that there were people who definitely mourn. I'm not saying that, but you just when you read the books, especially Jane Austen's books, and maybe she's just trying to be satirical. I don't know. But I just feel like some people are just so worried about their inheritance, you know, like, what's her name? Is it Fanny Dashwood? You know, she's like, oh, people always live forever. When there's annuities. We paid to them. I apologise for my like, silly phone. But yeah, so anyway, so I just don't know there's I don't know if it's just like that was more commonplace. But when you read it as a modern reader, you're like, wow, that's, that's harsh.

Izzy Meakin  17:48

No, absolutely. And I think maybe considering, like you just mentioned about Fannie. Maybe it was more dependent on where you were in society, like Fannie and Marissa kind of in that same palm purse they both pretty well for you. They've got houses in in London that kind of thing. So maybe it's just like this society they're around it was more accepted to kind of think that way. Interesting couple. You know, who where is the money found? And who's who's good at managing it and those the people that we want kind of thing? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's been talk though, for sure. Okay, really, like close to Mary then is her brother Henry Crawford. I really struggled with Henry actually, I got hands down from Frozen. He's if you haven't seen those in a while, Hans is basically he's like the male character that we see first. And he basically says he's in love with Ana, and she falls for him, and we think they're going to be together. And then we were cruel trick of fate. He actually when she comes to him for true love's kiss and to be rescued, so she doesn't die. He turns around her and says, I don't love you. And basically, I was just after your kingdom. And it's it was a shocking scene is it's dark. But yeah, he's on my list for Henry Crawford, just because he seems able to shift his emotions between women he could well not with the horses and go for any other women, but it's like shifting your emotions between your motor or your drivers, like he's able to manipulate honour or need to just be like me, that obviously wasn't what I was after. And I think that's very calculated. And Henry is very good at making people feel loved and accepted and special. And then he's also very good at turning that into somebody else. And not really worrying about it.

Ann  19:37

Yeah, I really liked that one. I didn't pick that one for Henry I almost did because it was very tempting for me to just put Hans for for a lot of these guys because I feel like there's such a similarity but I I definitely see it within recovered. I like what you said about the ability to switch motives very quickly and switch directions because it is such a surprise. I don't know about you, but when I first watched frozen theatre. I gasped. Like, I thought that I thought that on a spoiler alert, but I thought that ANA and Christoph were going to end up together. But in my mind, I was like, oh, Hans is going to fall in love with Elsa somehow, like, he's just, you know, he's such a nice guy like he's surely going to, they're, they'll do like, he'll just be like the nice guy that maybe falls in love with Elsa. And I was just like, shocked. I was like, what are they going to do with this? And so when I read Mansfield Park, I had no idea about the plot. And I was really hoping that like, I think a lot of people when they read it, I was really hoping that Henry was going to be a Mr. Darcy, I was really hoping that he was going to be the guy that like changed. And I see that, you know, he couldn't have but it was still kind of a Not, not a total surprise, but I just definitely kind of routed for them together a little bit and was like a little bit shocked that he was as bad as he was, I guess and what wasn't redeemed. It makes sense. And Austen's like, the way that Austen does things looking back, but at the time reading it, I sort of had the same level of surprise.

Izzy Meakin  21:03

Yeah, yeah. 100% that haunting, honestly, that I've never been so shocked smell like that was so disturbed. I was watching like, what this kind of happened. This is so dark. In me. It was it was a moment, guys. Yeah, it was it definitely was.

Ann  21:19

So yeah, I didn't I didn't use him. But I absolutely agree with the choice. I definitely approve. It was a choice. It's a good one.

Izzy Meakin  21:27

No, thanks. I appreciate that. Um, who do you have a new list than for Henry.

Ann  21:31

So the reason that I didn't choose Hans is because I liked this one a little bit better. And I thought, well, I'll just limit it to one since I get carried away sometimes. And so I don't know if you have watched the adventures of a robot and Mr. Toad. Have you seen that one? Sometimes it goes by the second half, which is The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. So explain it for anyone. It's a little bit more like nerdy, obscure Disney. It's from the 1940s. I want to say it's based on the Wind in the Willows. So it's two short films put together like 230 minute films or 240 minute films put together into a feature. They did it during World War Two, when the studio was suffering a little bit for money, and so they had these two shorter films they decided to put together and release as a feature. And the adventures sorry, Mr. Toad is based on the Wind in the Willows. And then it's kind of a separate story from the adventures of Erykah Badu, which is based on Washington Irving, the American writers, Legend of Sleepy Hollow. And so if you're not familiar with The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, it's basically about a very awkward school teacher, who named Jacob crane who comes into this New England town in New York City Hall in New York. And he falls for this beautiful girl named Katrina, who is also being courted by what I like to call guest on 1.0 His name is Brom Bones. And so Brom Bones is is who I am equating to Henry Crawford. And I kind of equated the two because Brom Bones is not a super villain. He's more of a gas Donny selfish but without like that evil streak of gas on where he's gonna go kill somebody, but he is well, I guess he is kind of evil. So I'll explain the story. So on Halloween evening, Brom Bones, realises that Echoboy crane is very superstitious. And so it's left very ambiguously at the end of the movie, whether or not the Headless Horseman, he tells us ghosty tale of the Headless Horseman at this party and it goodbye gets kind of really scared and nervous. And so it's kind of left ambiguously the movie when everybody is riding home he encounters the Headless Horseman and Headless Horseman is you know, a headless hessian soldier who is running around the forest late at night, chasing a kebab crane trying to chop off his head.

Izzy Meakin  24:00

So scary. Great. It's

Ann  24:02

such a great film and it's such a great film for Halloween. I watch it every Halloween if you haven't watched it, I'm totally spoiling it for everyone. But if you haven't watched it, you need to watch it. But anyway, so it is left ambiguously is the Headless Horseman really supernatural is from Bones was born from bones. Right? And you know, and this is what happened or was this headless horseman really Brahms from bones dressed up like the Headless Horseman was he in a costume because of the horse looks like Brom Bones is horse and so it's kind of like and that's the Washington Irving's story kind of leaves it ambiguous to like, is it really a ghost? Or is it from books? And so I know this is a very strange comparison. But if we look at him as sort of a guest on 1.0 There's like this arrogance to him. But he's not like like I said, he's not completely evil. He's very mischievious he likes to do little things that he thinks he's very funny and, and they're not completely malicious, but he's just kind of a bully and he's very much thinks of it He very much thinks of IQ Abad as inferior to him. And he cannot understand why he cannot win over Katrina, compared to this bumbling school teacher ik Abad and she's kind of liking him too. And so I thought that represented Henry Crawford's arrogance of that he cannot understand why he can't win over Fannie. And while he doesn't necessarily know he's a direct rival with Edmund, it's still this arrogance of just like Brom Bones, where he just feels as if he can't win over this person, he should be able to easily win over.

Izzy Meakin  25:32

Oh my gosh, I love it. I was hoping that you might have somebody for Henry Crawford because I was really struggling with it. But I knew you've got like a much broader knowledge of Disney films than I have. So it's like, I feel like she'll find something from celebrity that you have it you have. Oh my god, that film sounds so scary, though. I'm not gonna lie.

Ann  25:47

It's actually not it's kind of funny. Bing Crosby narrates the entire thing and sings all the songs. And so it's like this kind of cool, like, you're sitting around a campfire because Bing Crosby, there's no actual dialogue. There's just songs. And so being Crosby is like telling you the story and then singing songs in between. And so you're just seeing the characters play out as you're being told this story. And it's very funny. And then the scene in the woods is kind of spooky, but it is such a great Halloween film. I promise. It's no more scary than Hocus Pocus, but it's it's a lot of fun. Oh my gosh. Anyways, like guest on like, he looks a lot like us on so I really think so it was based on him.

Izzy Meakin  26:28

Oh, yeah. Maybe they use the same drawings. I think sometimes they do tend to do in that. For sure. Like, I think madam Medusa they were going to use Corella development and they did them but they kept similarities, that kind of thing. So yeah, yeah. 100% Do you have any of us for Henry Crawford, you want to bring up or

Ann  26:45

That's it? That's the only one I thought of. And like I said, Hans, I was kind of on the fence about but I you made a really great case for that. So I agree with that one.

Izzy Meakin  26:52

No, I love it. That's amazing. So the last person for Mansfield Park that I have is Mariah only because of what she does in the end, when she runs off with Henry and ends up disgraced and she's also very much mischievous herself throughout. She's very flirtatious. So I struggled to find an exact villain to match with her. But some fun that I did find. Well, some a couple of people that I did find is actually the mermaids from Peter Pan. So the mermaids are very flirtatious. They've got no sense of consequence. Because when Peters like laughing about the facts in a Wendy's really sad that the fact that they were trying to drown her, they were like, Oh, we were only trying to drown her and they just say it in a really like blase kind of way. I love it. Yeah. In the fact that Mariah runs off with Henry and disgraces herself isn't that same way that no sense of consequences, she just does things. Because she it feels good to her. She said, This is what I want to do. And I feel like the mermaids are very much that live in the moment kind of characters as well. So yeah, that was my, my comparison. There as you have anyone.

Ann  28:01

I really read that I did not think of that at all. So that really, yeah, that was really good. I actually had two which we've kind of talked about a little bit, so I'll just quickly say that I thought she and Julia have some similarities to the stepsisters, as from Cinderella, Anastasia and Drizella. So I think it's more so with Caroline Bingley, and this is her first but I definitely see that sort of same entitlement. brattiness I said, I see Mansfield Park as pretty much a Cinderella story. So I think it fits in. It's kind of like almost like the two stepsisters that treat her like less than and then also what we were talking about with Mrs. Norris, and Aunt Sarah from Lady in the tramp made me think of the cats basically the cats and lady in the tramp, their smug self important because mischief, tried to get away with it. You know, Mrs. Norris always thinks that they're perfect. So I definitely, and you know, they like to be they sort of think of themselves as pet to the family in the same kind of way. So those are the two comparisons that I had, but I really liked the mermaids because I didn't think of that.

Izzy Meakin  29:07

No, I really liked your lady in the Trump and Mansfield Park link because I think that's really good. Like for those three particular characters. I can really see the similarities there. I like it. Absolutely. Um, so unless you've got anything else for Monster Park,

Ann  29:23

I think that wraps that book girl. We have for you, Thomas Bertram. Oh,

Izzy Meakin  29:28

I didn't have him on my list anymore. Do you know why? Oh my gosh, you're gonna have to take over for this one. I must have like cut him off or something. Horace that's sad. Okay. You take them. Take the lead. Go for it. Okay, okay.

Ann  29:41

He's actually this comparison is actually my favourite from from this whole list. That I really was stumped. So stumped, and I started looking through the list of Disney Villains and I would just try to picture each one and think you know, Do I see any similarities? And I found a very kind of obscure villain um, but it is the ringmaster from Dumbo. So if you have not seen Dumbo, the ringmaster isn't a total villain, which I would say that Sir Thomas Bertram isn't a total villain. And he but he is I read something in this Wikipedia that says that he isn't the typical villain. He is trying to run his circus the best he can. And he has to deal with Dumbo. So I was like, Oh my gosh, Sir Thomas Bertram isn't a total villain, but his house is kind of a circus. And he's trying to run it the best he can. And he has some Fanny. And I feel so bad to comparing Fanny to Dumbo, but I was like, oh, gosh, there's actually some comparisons there. Because it's like he see, it's exactly how we see his Fanny as someone to deal with. You know, it's not that he's evil, but she's just somebody that he has to deal with. His household is a metaphorical circus. And the ringmaster dresses Dumbo as a clown to perform in the circus and really humiliates him. I mean, some of these old Disney movies are like, you kind of went sometimes, because you're like, wow, they go really dark with some of this stuff. But he dresses Dumbo the elephant as a clown. And there's like all of these like slapstick gags he tries to do I think there's like, throwing pies in his face and stuff. And you're like, almost want to cry, you almost want to cry for Jumbo. And I thought, well, it's not the exact same thing. But there's a lot of times that that he Sir Thomas Bertram accidentally humiliates Fanny, you know, and the way that he pushes her to marry Henry, you know, it's like trying to push her into this role that she doesn't want to be in that she's uncomfortable with and it makes her in a weird sense, feel like a clown, you know, it makes her feel humiliated. And then I also loved this comparison, because I was thinking about how Dumbo shocks the ringmaster and the end by flying any flies over his head. And you know, and that's kind of the beginning of some of Dumbo is triumph. And I was just like, Oh, that's such a great metaphor, because Fanny is so underestimated, but like compared to his daughters compared to everyone else, she ends up by staying true to herself. One of the reasons I love Fanny is that she stays true to herself. And she ends up metaphorically, you know, soaring flying and you know, becoming the person that she always has known that she is and being accepted by admin even we don't even know we don't like admin that much. You know, she started gets her ability, or sorry, she sort of gets her chance to soar as a person and be herself. And so that's I just really liked this comparison for the metaphors.

Izzy Meakin  32:36

No, I honestly, I love that. That's amazing. Such a good one was great. Thank you. I've not seen the word the longest time because it really does scare me and upset me. But yeah, I can 100% agree with that. That's amazing.

Ann  32:51

Yeah, I hadn't seen Dumbo in a really long time either. So I had to watch some clips and kind of like research it and the more research I was like the spit.

Izzy Meakin  32:58

Yeah, I love it. That's great. Okay, so I think that wraps up Mansfield Park for us. But that was so much fun. And thank you and we'll be back next month with another two instalments of this series. So here's a sneak peek of the next episode. Last villain from sensors on stability to cover as Willoughby

Ann  33:16

but it's that same sort of manipulation that was a steal uses to manipulate Eleanor into believing a false reality

Izzy Meakin  33:22

not a Medusa from the rescuers.

Ann  33:26

Think again, says Jane Austen never trust it. Never trust an overly charming man. Yeah,

Izzy Meakin  33:32

very, very socially scheming. I think both of them are self interested. So

Ann  33:37

that is such a great comparison. I love it. I didn't think of that at all. Head over

Izzy Meakin  33:40

to my Instagram. I will be Austen for all the updates and all event info that will be in the bio. So go ahead and check all of her content out. Her YouTube stuff is great and also on Instagram as well. So I will see you in the next episode.