Episode 37: Pride & Prejudice Unpopular Opinions #1 | 2 Year Podcast Anniversary Ep

We are celebrating 2 years of the What the Austen? Podcast! Thank you so much for all your support the past 2 years, it’s been so wonderful sharing my love of Jane Austen with you all. 

Is Mr Darcy really all that? 

Pride and Prejudice adaptions - 2005 v 1995? 

Is Mr Bennet the real villain of the novel? 

This is a chilled episode covering some Pride & Prejudice unpopular opinions, so grab a warm drink and a blanket and join me and Caily for a fun discussion on some of your hot takes! 

Here's to another 2 years and beyond Janeites 🤍

Thanks again to our sponsor Haus of Bennet: https://hausofbennet.com/ Use code whatthediscount at the checkout for 15% off!

Mrs Gardiner Article for the Jane Austen Literacy Foundation (Pride and Possibilities)

Where can you find Caily?
Instagram: @half_agony_half_hope
Episode 2: A defence of Colonel Brandon from Sense and Sensibility
Episode 5: Discussing Jane Austen's most awkward characters  #AwkAustenAug
Episode 7: Jane Austen Villain off 2021 | Wickham v Willoughby with Caily and Ellis
Episode 9: The power of the letter in Jane Austen's work
Episode 12 & 13: Placing Austen's Heroines into Harry Potter Houses.
Episode 22: Villain 2022 | Caroline Bingley v Isabella Thorpe
Episode 28: The other Jane | A Jane Bennet Character Study 

Transcript

izzy:
Hi, Janeites and welcome back to the What the Austen podcast. This is episode number 37 and I've got Kayleigh joining me because this is a, because this is an anniversary episode for the podcast, we're celebrating two years of the pod which is so crazy to think about. two years, that's honestly so mad to me. But it's been such a wonderful journey, so we thought we do a fun episode where we chat a little bit about the podcast journey, but then also we thought we'd do some unpopular opinions and hot takes specifically focusing on pride and prejudice, so I put a request out on my Instagram and I also did a bit of Reddit scrolling because the Reddit feed on Jane Austen is always hot, so I thought I'd do both and then we've picked a but it's gonna be a chilled out episode, so grab a drink, you know, grab a blind kit, chill out with us for a little while, as we celebrate two years of what the Austin.

caily:
I can't believe it. Happy birthday to the podcast and I cannot believe it's been two years. I remember when you reached out to me and asked me to be a guest on one of the episodes and I was just so excited for you to do all of the different topics. You just had so many incredible ideas and I just, I can't believe it's been two years how far the podcast has evolved since then.

izzy:
No, you know what? Obviously I love all the episodes that I end up doing with people but those first couple of episodes you're talking about Colonel Brandon and everything, I thought that was such a great way to start the podcast because I always love talking about the characters that are a little bit more obscure so I love that we went full force into Colonel Brandon as opposed to starting out with someone like Darcy. It was just so enjoyable to do a deep dive on We started that.

caily:
I loved that too. And that's so true. I think when you read a book, obviously, you're dissecting different aspects of the protagonists. And it's really those secondary characters that don't get enough focus all the time. And so I think it's so fun to do a deep dive. And you've done so, you've picked so many amazing characters to analyze. Like I loved the one you did with Edward Ferris too, and Harriet Smith. I think it's just, it makes it so interesting. It's so incredible when you can read the book once and have one opinion about someone and then you read it a second or third time and then they completely change in your mind. So that was, I loved doing that.

izzy:
Yeah, I love that as well. It's definitely something that I've taken from doing the podcast and speaking to so many different guests is, my gosh, like my thoughts and ideas and the books have changed so dramatically over the past two years, just because I've been like absorbing what other people have been saying. And not that it like completely changes my opinion, but sometimes it just adds a different element that I've never thought about before. And I'm like, you know, I can see that. And also just on the Instagram as well, like obviously I started the Instagram before the podcast like the amount of friends and incredible conversations that I've had through starting like the What the Austin content has just been amazing and I yeah I'd love expanding my own viewpoint on Jane Austen.

caily:
You've done such an incredible job bringing in all of these members of the JNITE community. Like a lot of the guests on the podcast, I keep thinking, oh my gosh, I would want to be friends with this person. They're so smart. They're so interesting. And yeah, it's just amazing how you started off the first episode with a deep dive of persuasion. And then we started doing the character analysis. We've done these literature analysis, but then you can also do the fun crossover episodes. Like I love that you did the Taylor Swift comparison and the Disney. It's just, you're so versatile and it's just such an amazing way to look at Jane's novels through multiple lens.

izzy:
Absolutely, and obviously I couldn't do this without all of the wonderful guests who come on and you know Obviously all the guests are friends as well. So, you know, they're support outside of the podcast means so much as well And obviously Kaylee You'd be like a rock my my rock for like this whole process because you know, there are times when it's amazing And I must total high with it all and then those times that it's it's tough, you know It's it's sometimes I struggle, you know to be creative with it and I just get into a funk for you always like you're doing great it's fine we got this you're gonna you're gonna be fine so yeah that's always meant so much to me and I know I tell you that all the time but it really does it makes such a massive difference that I've had you throughout this whole journey.

caily:
Oh my gosh, well I've loved being there with you in the highs and lows. And the reason you'll get down about it sometimes is because you care so much and you wanna put your all into it. And I think that really shines through and there are so many people that you've impacted through this process. And people who feel connected to you and it's amazing to have that community because I think particularly and in the aftermath of COVID, a lot of people have been struggling with their mental health and they need Jane Austen. They need their love of Jane Austen to inspire them and they need other people who share that love to feel connected to. And so that's why I think that this podcast is such an amazing thing too because it brings people who never would have met together over a common shared love.

izzy:
Yes, I love that. I just love the community aspect of it in general as well because before I started the Instagram page and the podcast, I had no idea that the community was even there or how big it was. I don't know why, it was just something that I never thought to even look for on social media. Like, I just, I don't know if you felt the same, like it was just something I never looked for. And then when I started my page, I remember my older brother, he works in marketing, he was a little bit like, I don't know if you're just gonna be like speaking to the crickets, like I support you and like, about your passions but he was like worried that there'd be like nobody on the other end. But he was like I can't believe there's so many like Jane Austen fans out there and I'm like I know right? We're such a massive community it's amazing.

caily:
Yeah, it was the same thing. Quotations really inspire me and ground me when I'm feeling a little lower. And so I started my page not necessarily for Jane Austen, but to just do a quotation a day. And a lot of my favorite quotations are Jane Austen quotes. And I was learning how to use the hashtags. And I wrote hashtag Jane Austen. And I clicked on it. And I found all of these Jane Austen fans. And I was like, what, Austin? That's such a cool name. I love that handle name. And I loved the quotations that you'd posted. And I remember, I think when I found you, you only maybe had six posts or something. And I read it.

izzy:
big spulloes like probably

caily:
We both were

izzy:
family

caily:
just

izzy:
members

caily:
starting out. And I remember right away, I was like, I want to connect with this girl. And it's so amazing what it's turned into. And we got to meet this summer. I just love it. It totally changed my life.

izzy:
I know, I know it's so wild to think. Like, obviously, I mean, we live in like, you know, worlds apart. Like you live in the US, I live in the UK. We never would have met if it hadn't been that we obviously both started our pages and everything. And so that's so wild to me. Like, Star's definitely aligned for us to become friends and that just, oh, it just honestly blows my mind a little bit, but yeah, it's been amazing. Like, just making friends all over the world, just for a fellow love of Jane Austen, I really do.

caily:
And I love how inclusive you are with it too. I think the way you don't have just one approach towards Jane, like a Taylor Swift fan can talk about her love of Taylor Swift and how that connects to Jane. You know, the power of the letters episode we did, literature students I think would really like that and love to look at Jane through that lens. I just think it's so interesting amazing how you bring in all of these experts who have a niche level of knowledge. And you incorporate that and make it just take that part out. I'm rambling. It's fine. Just cut that out. I don't know. But I really think that's true. I like that each episode has a lot of versatility.

izzy:
right? And we're all just normal people, you know, we're not, you know, I mean, a lot of us have ivory degrees on masters, and obviously I was working on her PhD at the moment, but, you know, none of us are, you know, Jane Austen experts out like in society, you know, writing books on Jane Austen or anything. We're just like normal people who love Jane Austen, who are also multi-passionate, so we're able to make collaborations like with the Jane Austens, with the Taylor Swift stuff, and also the Disney stuff and everything. And yeah, I love that because we're all multi-passionate, it's amazing when you can find certain topics that have a crossover. So like obviously I found that with the tale of Swift, with the Disney, with things like Harry Potter. There's just like a lot of people who like similar content who are in the Jane Austen world and obviously that's not the same for everybody. There's people who don't like those things but I just love finding ways in which you know we have these crossover passions.

caily:
Definitely and I also like that certain episodes are just more light-hearted and fun right like even that when we do the awkward Austin August and then other episodes will be more of a serious literature analysis but like yeah they're I really the crossover episodes are phenomenal and I think so many people connect to them so yeah I'm just really glad you're doing this

izzy:
Oh my god, we're definitely bringing awkward Austin August back this year. I love that so much, you know? I knew it started on the Instagram page with like funny memes and everything, but the episode we did was hilarious as well. So I really want to make sure that we find a slot for that this year again, because yeah, I love that.

caily:
Who won again last year? I remember, wasn't it between Mr. Collins, Mary Bennett, and John Thorpe? Wow, what a solid top three. Ha ha ha.

izzy:
Yon's just more like, irritating than awkward but he does make me cringe so bad but yeah and I think was it Mr. Collins who won potentially? I don't know maybe he was married this year because maybe Mr. Collins won the year previous, I don't know. God they're assuming he awkward characters though, like I always think about like the Parmas as well, they're kind of awkward.

caily:
Yeah, you've said that before, that in sense and sensibility, there are so many unbearably awkward and annoying secondary characters.

izzy:
Yeah, to be fair, just in sense sensibility in general, there are so many characters. Like, I think I made this point in like one of the YouTube videos that I popped up. I'm just gonna say that because it's gonna come out like after this anyway. In one of the YouTube videos that I popped up, I actually made a point is that the sense sensibility has so many characters. And that's why I think it's actually easier for people to come to that a little bit later when they're reading Jane Austen for the first time, just because I think it's so easy to get bogged down and some of them have multiple names like Ann where she also goes by Nancy honestly that still catches me out sometimes I'm like who the hell is Nancy like what? Who is this person? But yeah no I yeah I think there's a lot of wild characters and sensibility and I think that just adds you know I think that makes sense so that's the case because there's so many so many like there's two main storylines sensibility as well so it makes sense that there's But yeah, I do like your favorite, that's your favorite book, right?

caily:
It's interesting. Yes, it is. I do love it. I love that there are two sisters. And yeah, I don't know. There's something I love about that. And I also think that they did a really good job about... They did a really good job with the adaptations for Sense and Sensibility.

izzy:
Yeah, yeah. Did you hear Anne's comment on the Disney episodes that sense sensibility is pretty much frozen? But

caily:
Yes!

izzy:
frozen is obviously not magic. I was like mind blown.

caily:
That blew my mind. Oh my gosh. That, I totally see that. That was a brilliant, brilliant connection.

izzy:
I know, I honestly can't believe it. I was like, oh, my days, that is so true. Yeah, totally

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
mind blown. I feel like somewhat that needs to be proven that the producer's use sensibility or something.

caily:
Well, also the fact that you said that Sense and Sensibility was an inspiration for Taylor Swift. It's Swift's album. That was pretty incredible.

izzy:
Yeah, I love that people are hyping up sense sensibility more. I think that's great, you know? I think there's been a lot of like modern takes on Pride and Prejudice, so I kind of love that. And we're seeing kind of sense sensibility inspiring or maybe not intentionally inspiring, but kind of does inspire some other content, so yeah, I think that's pretty cool.

caily:
There's something fascinating about the sisters and their different personalities and how they're foils of each other. And yeah, I don't know, Marianne's whole journey. I realize I love stories where there's a lot of character development and I think Marianne is one of the characters who evolves the most, along with Emma, I would say.

izzy:
Yeah, I agree. I think Emma has so much. She goes on such a journey, plus I then I love Emma,

caily:
I'm

izzy:
whereas

caily:
so

izzy:
I feel

caily:
sorry.

izzy:
like some people just Emma just not progress whatsoever. She was the same pain in the bum as she was at the start of the novel. And I'm just here like Emma goes on such a journey. Like she's such a developed character by the end.

caily:
Well, I know you love Emma, and I do too. I don't get people's problem with her. I think she's playful and she's fun. Emma's fun.

izzy:
Did I ever tell you about what happened when I was at uni and we were studying Emma for one of the modules? Me and the lecturer having such back and forth fanter about Emma and Jane Austen and stuff. And I was like, I love Emma for X-Line Z reasons. We were having inside jokes on everything. Then went to the next person in the circle that we were on. And she was like, I hate Emma. Emma's a snob. She's stuck up. I was like, okay.

caily:
Acrid turtle!

izzy:
Oh, ew. I was like, this is so awkward now. I was just like, okay. She was like, she doesn't care about the poorer people and everything. I was like, I can see this perspective, but I was like, how awkward for it to come after me where I'm singing Emma's praises like, what a journey. She really develops herself. But yeah, there we go.

caily:
I would have like put my sunglasses on and just retreated into my turtleneck

izzy:
Thank you.

caily:
and then like, okay, bye!

izzy:
Yeah, it's actually such a small class as well. I was literally just like, oh my god. Oh my god. I was like, what if I get around the whole class and everybody else hates Emma? It's just me down like... Big fan!

caily:
Oh my gosh, well I'm glad you stood up for Emma. I think that's a little too harsh of an assessment, I would say.

izzy:
Yeah, yeah, but it isn't uncommon, that's for sure. But in terms of like the podcast journey, because I just want to like chat a little bit about that as well. So we did, it wasn't actually a anniversary episode that we did last year, but it was when we were covering the Harry Potter houses for the heroines, and we kind of mentioned that it was like one year of the podcast. And I think at that point we had, and I think at that point the podcast had 3000 downloads in total, like that was have and as of this date we have 20,000.

caily:
My gosh,

izzy:
Yeah.

caily:
that's incredible.

izzy:
I know, I know. I was like, that's like, a lot. So that's like a massive jump. So I'm just like, wow, that just like blows my mind that people, you know, have been loving the content on which it means so much to me because I do just put so much heart and soul into it. So I'm like, you know, it's amazing to see that. And I try not to get too caught up in the numbers and everything because then you get on like a road of like comparison and everything. And I'm just like, no, I need to, you know, do it because I love it, not because I've got certain stats coming from it. But yeah, it's just nice to see that growth. And I was like really struggling with like, you know, am I doing the right things with the podcast, am I making the right contents and everything? And Nick kind of sat me down and he was like, let's look at like the journey, like let's look at it on a graph, let's see where it's been going. And he was like, you know, even you waste the past even doubling the amount in like a year. So it's like, this is, you know, good sign. Hopefully it's because people are enjoying the content.

caily:
Yeah, and I know that you don't do it for the stats, but with the amount of work that you put into it, it's nice to see the growth. And it's nice to know that there are a lot of listeners out there that you may never meet, but you've impacted them in some way and they're really connecting to the content that you're putting out there.

izzy:
hope so and that's why I'm really excited to start uploading the content on YouTube like this is the first one that's coming out on YouTube. I'm excited just that it's gonna be like such a nice way to grow and also I feel like people can get more connected to me but also to my guests you know you can see our faces and you know see our expressions my over expressions for things.

caily:
I like weird hand gestures.

izzy:
I'm just here like hello but I just think that's gonna be I'm really glad that that's something that I've chosen to do now is kind of like the podcast because I actually really love watching video podcasts. Even if I have it on in the background I don't know why. I sometimes I just really like to see people's faces and I'm just like chilling there and everything. So yeah I'm excited that this is kind of like the next step for the podcast.

caily:
Yeah, I think, I love that too because I think that also just accommodates a lot of different learning styles. Like, I work with a lot of neurodivergent clients and that's one of my biggest passions and some of them like to listen to podcasts that they need some kind of visual too. And so that's just an easier way for them to engage with the content. So that made me really happy as well.

izzy:
Yeah, absolutely, and the more accessible I can make the podcast, the better. You know, I try and do that, obviously, with the transcript. And if you guys didn't know, there's always a transcript available for every single episode, should you need that. And I always attach that at the bottom. But yeah, I feel like the video content as well. I get that, like, I have to have, like, so many things, like, going on just to keep my mind clear. Like, you see, we even have the podcast on, and it's the video version, and I'm doing something else at the same time. Like, for me, that's just, yeah, it makes it easier for my brain to function if I've Bye.

caily:
Yeah, and if you do it on YouTube, you can do captions too, right?

izzy:
you can do captions or if you're like crazy like me, I listen to most things on YouTube at like two times the speed. I don't know if anyone could do that with my voice personally because I know I talk really fast but yeah, I listen to other YouTubers on double the speeds. I genuinely

caily:
Oh, well.

izzy:
can't listen to things like slowly.

caily:
No, that's exactly what I do as well. And I always tell, that's one of the accommodations for my clients that I give is, if you're having a hard time focusing when you have to listen to something, put the video on 1.5 or two times speed, because people with ADHD at least can attend better to people who talk quickly, actually.

izzy:
Yeah, yeah, it definitely makes the world difference to me. I just like switch off if I'm, you know, I've not got ADHD, but I've got ASD. And for me, I just like, my mind just wanders. I'm just thinking about something else, like something super random, like, you know, I don't know, the different colors of different birds or something like something super random. If I don't have it on like fast, you know, it's keeping my mind engaged.

caily:
Yeah, and I think too, some people just like to see the faces, like to see the laughter and just like you said, the expression. So I think this is great and I'm glad that you've taken that step.

izzy:
I know, I'm so excited! And obviously like I started my personal YouTube as well, which I was really excited about because yeah, I'm just really loving creating like this video content, which is handy because video content is kind of taking over the world at the moment, so yeah, I'm just excited to see where all this goes and obviously Kaylee, you're right there with me, my right hand man, right hand woman!

caily:
Ha ha! I am just so proud of everything you've accomplished and we've accomplished and I would love to hear do you have the stats of like the top countries that listen to the podcast?

izzy:
I can definitely check it out. Let me have a look.

caily:
I'd love to hear where people are listening all over the world.

izzy:
That is so true. Let's do it. Let's have a look. Let me have a look. So North America is the top for downloads at the moment and then Europe. So it's just kind of splits people up and then Oceana. So

caily:
Really?

izzy:
yeah.

caily:
Yeah, cool.

izzy:
Yeah, absolutely. So that's really cool. But literally every single continent is covered. that's amazing you know that I know that there's people listening all over that's that's so nice

caily:
It is so heartwarming, every continent.

izzy:
Mm-hmm.

caily:
20,000 downloads. Amazing. That is, ah. I'm just getting chills. That just makes me so happy.

izzy:
I know, I know. I can't wait until I get to 50 episodes because then I get another certificate from Buzzsprout. Like I'm such a weird nerd that I loved getting the certificates but they cut them off at like 10,000 downloads. I was like, no. The certificates I loved those. Oh. So I don't

caily:
What

izzy:
bet.

caily:
do these certificates do? It's just like a little reward.

izzy:
downloadable, but I was like totally

caily:
So cute.

izzy:
feeling them. I used to love getting them through. I don't know why, I think maybe because I tried not to get onto the stats, so when I got the little certificate I was like, oh that's so nice, that's just like, you know, happy achievement day. I've got them all like saved in a folder as well, I kind of love it, but I don't get another one until I hit 50 episodes, which is super sad, but if anyone from Buzzsprout, or if you work for certificate for forever, that would be great. That would be great.

caily:
All right, everyone, listen to the video a second time so we can get Izzy her certificate.

izzy:
Well no, I've got to make 50 episodes! I've got to make 50 episodes before they give me the next certificate. And then I think it's like 80 or something, so... So I'm really sad, because you know, I think we're in like the 30s now, well obviously this one's 32, so...

caily:
Oh, it has to be, you have to make 50 episodes, it's not, oh I thought you were saying 50,000 listens.

izzy:
Oh no, that would be great though if they had a never one. No, I've topped the amount of listen certificates I can get. Like 10,000 downloads was the last one. So the only certificates I'm eligible for now is the how many episodes you've made. But 50 episodes is a lot, right? Like that's quite a lot. Like obviously I'll get there eventually, but yeah, it's been a massive gap between certificates now.

caily:
Buzzsprout? We don't like this sassiness.

izzy:
I know, I should just

caily:
Great

izzy:
like,

caily:
affordable

izzy:
think about

caily:
letter of

izzy:
it.

caily:
complaint.

izzy:
I was like, I need more certificates. I need this validation.

caily:
Make you a certificate, is he?

izzy:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, I'm sorry, I've got something to stick in my throat now. It's because I was smiling too much, and I'm like...

caily:
You have a feeling we're in a giggly mood today. Both

izzy:
And if you

caily:
of

izzy:
were

caily:
us.

izzy:
watching, you'd be like, these people just laugh the whole time. We're just

caily:
You

izzy:
having

caily:
know what, there's

izzy:
such

caily:
nothing

izzy:
a good

caily:
wrong

izzy:
time.

caily:
with that. Life's too short. We gotta laugh a little.

izzy:
Yeah, that's true. Although we'll end up with like marks all over our face, I'm laughing so much and then we'll be like, regret so we should be miserable my whole life.

caily:
I just love Jane Austen so much!

izzy:
Okay, right, shall we? Do you want to move on to the content now? Are you happy to do that? Do you think we should chat about something else before then?

caily:
I'm happy to move on to the content. Um, just let me, I just need, I'm, I promise it'll take 10 seconds. I need to just check my work phone to make sure this client isn't going to come. So just so I know for my,

izzy:
Oh yeah, yeah, good

caily:
just

izzy:
for it, good for it.

caily:
one, one second. Okay, we're good.

izzy:
Okay.

caily:
Yeah, so I think that's good. I don't even think we need to use all of that, like you can if you want, but yeah, I think we got some good stuff and then we can just move into content.

izzy:
Okay, great. I'm gonna just hit a marker so that I know where the content starts.

caily:
Cough, cough!

izzy:
Okay, great. So it would be good to move on to some of the topics that we've picked out. So thank you again to the people on Instagram who put some ideas out there for unpopular opinions on Pride and Pre... I was just, it was general and popular, but hang on a second. For unpopular opinions and hot takes. So yeah, on Instagram I had a few come through but I decided to just based off what came through and what I found on Reddit, I think it was easier to just like put it into a category. So, um, yeah, all of the unpopular opinions and hot takes today are going to be Pride and Prejudice based. So I'm really excited to do this actually. This is the first of this type of episode, and if people do enjoy this content then let us know because I'm more than happy to make more episodes like this because I think it's really fun.

caily:
Yeah, I think this is such a wonderful way to celebrate the podcast anniversary because we all love Jane Austen in this community, but sometimes it's absolutely hysterical to see comments from people who don't love Jane Austen or people who have opinions on the novel that you would never think of. So I just think this will be a really good laugh.

izzy:
Yeah, no, I think so as well. I love that as well. Like there's just like, I feel like even when you love Jane Austen, you're always gonna have certain like strong opinions on specific things. Like everyone knows I have really strong opinions on Mansfield Park. So I just love hearing other people's because I feel like everybody takes like a different stance on certain things, which I love. So I am going to, so the first topic that we actually have on the list today is one that came from on Instagram. And I'm also gonna tie it it as well. So the Instagram post said, not Instagram post, Instagram response, that's it. And so the Instagram response said, why is everyone so in love with Darcy if Tilney exists? So referring to Henry Tilney from North Anger Abbey. And the Reddit post said most women would hate being married to Darcy, even a modern version of him, especially because he can't take a joke. He must learn to laugh at himself. The real perfect man is Henry two people saying the exact same thing and I was like, we got to chat about this because I feel like a lot of people jump on that like Mr. Darcy is like this perfect man or like the perfect catch. And I'm like, I feel like Henry does kind of fall to the waist side for a lot of people a lot of the time.

caily:
Yeah, that's interesting and I see both sides of it, but I agree with you. I think Mr. Darcy gets way too much credit. Like he's, I feel like, placed way higher than all the other Austin men and I don't think that's fair. I see why someone would wanna be with Mr. Darcy. Mr. Darcy has that chivalry. and he comes back and asks Elizabeth a second time and disregards his family and his aunt's opinion. I think the reason that people might see Mr. Darcy as a more powerful character is that he really puts himself on the line for Elizabeth in so many ways. Like, if you think about it, he shows up with such effort to win her. character in that way. He doesn't really do anything to fight for Catherine in my opinion, but I would totally, I would totally fall for Henry Tilne over Mr. Darcy I think because he's so playful. He has such a funny sense of humor. They have shared interests. He's kind of witty. He pokes fun at her a little bit. Like he is so charming. Yeah, what do you think about him?

izzy:
So, yeah, I do love Henry, but something that was thinking about from what you said is, do you think it's because of the heroin? That that's the case? Because you have to work harder for Elizabeth. Because Elizabeth is just like, so outspoken, such her own person, like she's just so... opinionated and just isn't gonna take any BS from anyone. And also, you've got to bear in mind that Elizabeth had been fed all of this information from Wickham, He really has to fight for her. He's not like starting on an even playing field here. Like he's got to like build her back up to like a normal level and then make her fall in love with him. Like there's a lot, there's a lot he's got to do. Whereas for Henry, whereas for Henry, Catherine's like smitten with him from the first ball. She's literally just like, when will I see Henry next? I feel like North Anger Abbey is such an easy romance. I feel like that the biggest dynamic in North Anger Abbey Isabella Thorpe in terms of like the romance side of the storyline, I think it's super easy going like they have very little, like they have very little, they have very little, they have very few problems to overcome, you know, they're not really dealing with too much like, oh my god, why can't I get my words out here? They don't have like too many problems to deal with in their storyline. I think the biggest one is that Catherine assumes that killed, that Henry's dad killed her mum, that Henry's

caily:
Mm-hmm

izzy:
dad killed his mum. But I think that's like the only major thing that comes up. Whereas for Elizabeth and Darcy, it's like molehill after molehill, like there's problems popping up all over the place and yeah, I feel like they have to go on such, they have to go on more of a journey. Yeah, I don't know, that's kind of like my thought on it. Like I think it matters what the heroine's

caily:
I completely agree with that. I think Pride and Prejudice, it is a drama. You're right, they have to overcome so much and Darcy has to change so much to win her because just like you said, she has such high expectations for him. Whereas Henry feels kind of apathetic to me. It feels like, with Henry, it feels like he and Catherine are two best friends sitting on a couch about to watch Netflix and they're joking and laughing and playful. And maybe something about that is more realistic to certain relationships. A lot of people say you should end up marrying your best friend. And so I do like their playful dynamic. But maybe it's less dramatic. It's less, yeah.

izzy:
Yeah,

caily:
I'm

izzy:
but

caily:
losing

izzy:
maybe

caily:
my

izzy:
that

caily:
instinct.

izzy:
is a good thing. Maybe that's the point that someone was making on the Reddit post where they said, you know, in real life, you'd rather be married to Henry than Darcy, because I don't know if they could overcome that, like the power struggle that's obviously present there. The fact that Darcy even has the thought process where he's like, you know, I'm going against my family's expectations and, you know, I've got major issues with the fact that you're not very wealthy and your family, you know, aren't great socially. know what I mean? Like I feel like,

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
yes, I know that he develops from that point in comes to just love Elizabeth regardless, but I'm like, would you want that point of contention? Like, I feel like that could come up again in an argument later

caily:
Thank you.

izzy:
in your life, you know, if you just rubbed each other the wrong way for whatever reason, like, you know, that power, that power dynamic could come back.

caily:
Oh, I totally agree with that. Yeah, I, yes, I totally agree with that. I think what I like about Henry and Catherine's relationship is it feels more natural. And I do see them staying together forever. But they didn't have to overcome that much, like you said. So it's kind of anticlimactic. Whereas Darcy and Elizabeth come from two different worlds, different natures and everything. They have to overcome so much so that by the end when they get together, And they still have a lot to work through and you know, I could see some couples counseling and potential divorce if they don't work out Some more of their issues. I think the grain of hope is that there's a line that that says something about Darcy opens up and mellows out and is a little bit more playful because of a list Elizabeth's influence on him So hopefully that happens, but

izzy:
Yeah,

caily:
yeah, I agree with you

izzy:
I can get that for sure. I think what's great about Henry and Catherine as well as they already have so many things in common, like they have similar interests. Like there's loads of points in the books where they talk about the novels that they love reading, they both love gothic literature and Radcliffe's work. And I think in that sense, that's something that goes beyond just like the romance or the passion that you have for each other and more the chemistry, just like the physical attraction. that's the thing that maybe does like enjoy. I don't think you have to have exactly everything in common with your partner, but you've got to have things that you can do together that isn't, you know, like overly intimate. Does that make sense? Just like the general day-to-day stuff and like activities or interests or how are you gonna spend time together like in each other's company? Whereas I feel like Elizabeth and Darcy is very just like high energy. Like you said, there's like a lot going on. when things are mundane and back to normal, you know, what do you bond over then?

caily:
And it's, yeah, it's very, I love that you said that. Darcy and Elizabeth, it's very serious. I know Elizabeth herself is described as lively and playful and loving a laugh, but she is very, she's very intense with him and a little bit defensive. And so there's just a lot of intensity to that relationship, whereas Catherine and Henry, it's just so lighthearted. And just like you said, you could see them just reading a book together and giggling. sweet about that. Yeah.

izzy:
Yeah, I think so. But Devil's Advocate, I did see a couple of comments on the Reddit posts that said that Henry Tunney's a bit patronizing and maybe that would become an issue like later on. And I see, I don't fully see that myself. I think he's like really sarcastic and maybe this is just because I grew up in like the UK and most people are really sarcastic and just, you know, we kind of take the mick out of each other a lot of the time where you're just, you know, poking fun at people. And he does that, like he's really, really bad for it. And so, I'm like, I don't know if I see it as patronizing, like I just see it as banter, but I'm like, I can understand why other people when you see it is. I don't know, what do you think? This is probably good to ask you, considering you know, you grew up in the US.

caily:
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I see why people would say that he's patronizing, but I agree with you. The way I define patronizing is when you say something like, I know better than you, and I'm going to be pretty condescending about it. And instead of using the word patronizing, I would use the word incredulous. I think he's very socially savvy, and he sees people's flaws. certain social dynamics that Catherine doesn't see. And I think he's kind of incredulous by her naivety. And I think he's kind of like, oh my gosh, she doesn't see that this person's a total a-hole. But he kind of finds it endearing. And so I feel like he's trying to tell her, but in a way where he still thinks it's super sweet and endearing. I don't think he's criticizing her or trying to condescend to her. He's taken

izzy:
Thank you.

caily:
the, well, this is such a British thing to say. I think it's Banter too. I think he's kind of like, is that taking the Mickey? Is that? Yeah. Yeah.

izzy:
Yeah, taking the mic. Exactly. Yeah, that's why I was thinking as well. But that, you know, you just made me think about something there as well is Henry's very good at letting Catherine kind of make her own mistakes or realize like what social or realize what friendships aren't good friendships. So he lets her like figure out the Isabella situation like on her own. And he does say like, you know, he does give a little, a few hints here and there, but like you need to ditch her. Whereas Darcy is, he's really, he interferes in social situations that he doesn't think are right. Like look at the Jane and Bingley situation, like he doesn't go and ask like, you know, Elizabeth like, you know, how do you feel about this? What do you think is going on here? He doesn't ask Bingley, you know, what are your feelings? What do you think Jane's feelings are? This is not a discussion. He's like, I know best. I'm splitting them up.

caily:
Oh, you just blew my mind with that. That is so true. I feel like Henry sees how naive Catherine is and he wants to give her hints, he wants to give her a little bit of a heads up. He does it in a playful way that I don't think is condescending and he's still really endeared to her and he likes her innocence. But if you care about someone and you see a bad dynamic, you don't want them to get taken advantage of, but you're right, he doesn't do it in a way that's super condescending and controlling. Max Catherine enough to let her make her own decisions. That's such a good point. Whereas Darcy is arrogant enough to look at Jane and Bingley, make an assessment of the dynamic that was incorrect, where he's like, oh, Jane doesn't like Bingley. She'd just use him for his money. Doesn't get advice from anyone else, just makes that arbitrary decision. And then I can never get over the hypocrisy that he takes Jane away from Bingley. a little bit now, okay. Oh, yeah.

izzy:
I love that he's like, he tries to make the point that he was being kinder to Bingley by separating him. Then he like, he's got to suffer because he can't separate himself from Elizabeth. I'm like, oh my god. Can we

caily:
Yeah,

izzy:
just

caily:
creepy

izzy:
as well

caily:
in a

izzy:
like,

caily:
way.

izzy:
can we just like Darcy's first proposal? I'm just like, I don't think I'd ever recover from that. and you did some great stuff, but I feel like some of those things would linger in the back of my mind. I'd be like...

caily:
Yeah. Oh, man. I'm like just thinking of all the

izzy:
We're

caily:
different...

izzy:
both just like, we actually hate Darcy.

caily:
Yeah, what he says about her family. Do you expect me to rejoice in the inferiority of your connection? Can you imagine someone saying that to you after they walk into the room? You think they pseudo hate you. You have no idea that they're in love with you and then he just goes, you must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you.

izzy:
Bye!

caily:
I can't get your connections suck.

izzy:
I am like in a world with you friend like I don't know what's going on. I actually love it like the 2005 one that she's literally just

caily:
Ha ha ha ha!

izzy:
like like like like where the hell is this come from? Like

caily:
Thanks.

izzy:
were you on about? Um yeah.

caily:
And then they add the part two, we're at the end of that, it looks like they're about to make out. It's just

izzy:
Thank

caily:
like

izzy:
you.

caily:
the whole thing is so push and pull.

izzy:
it's like so all over the place and then he's like I love how instantly he needs to rectify the whole Wickham situation he's like I must write a letter about all of this like and then like writes his life story like for somebody who's been reserved for most of the novel so far he really just like puts all out of this letter.

caily:
I know. I- oh my gosh. Also it's in written form. Like if it got on the wrong hands and she decided to be spiteful. That part actually, that is very- again they have such an intensity. That was very intense of him to do. But I also thought that was really brave of him to do. Like that he owned everything and yeah. Well that makes me like him a little bit more again.

izzy:
Yeah,

caily:
I'm

izzy:
I

caily:
all over the place too, clearly.

izzy:
mean, he was already vulnerable to propose and for Elizabeth to reject him and not even rejecting slightly to be like, I'm rejecting you and I'm gonna tell you why. You know, I'm gonna lay out your flaws right here. And then to go and write a letter where you basically talk about basically the mistakes you've made in the past and how it's like impacted your family and also being like, I also interfered sister, but I'm okay with that situation that I did that. Um, man, yeah, he really lays it all on the line and that in just like that short amount of time, it's like, you know...

caily:
Yeah, it is so... It is such whiplash, it is so intense.

izzy:
this is going on when so many other things are happening like they're visiting like Lady Catherine you know Fitz Williams pops up on the scene the Collins is a pottering around it's not going wrong.

caily:
I'm tearing around this perfectly to describe. Collins. Oh my God, I love that so much. Yeah, oh my gosh. I bet that Elizabeth, when she rejected him the first time, I bet that was the first time he had ever been criticized in his life with all of the sick of fans and flatterers around him. I bet that's the first time someone put

izzy:
said

caily:
him

izzy:
no.

caily:
in his place. Yeah, seriously. He was

izzy:
Yeah.

caily:
treated like a king.

izzy:
Yeah, yeah, I can see it. And so that's like sometimes why I struggle to to compare the heroes to them, like if they come from such different dynamics, and then the heroines that they're after are so different, which I think Catherine and Elizabeth are. I think it is slightly different. But I agree. I think, I think in terms of passionate, exciting romance that, you know, you maybe want at some point in your life, like Darcy and Elizabeth is like, relationship but I feel like what Henry and Catherine has, what Henry and Catherine have is something that you've... oh my god I'm sorry that's the ice cream van.

caily:
What ice cream van that comes to your house? We said that's it.

izzy:
my house it obviously comes to all of the houses I'm just like my personal ice cream van but um

caily:
you want to go get some ice cream? I'll wait for you.

izzy:
I'm not going to dare, Rhys!

caily:
Oh, that's right. Okay, never mind. That's

izzy:
Really,

caily:
so cute

izzy:
it's just

caily:
though.

izzy:
cruel. He just drives past and places tune and I can't eat any of it. So funny. I can't remember what I was saying there, but I think I was saying that Catherine and Henry is, I think, what you want long term.

caily:
Yes, I agree. I think you want to be in, I think everybody wants that passionate, intense dynamic, like Elizabeth and Darcy. And even on a more dysfunctional level, like Wickham and Marianne, you want that really, you know, just really dramatic, intense emotions. But in the long term, you want something more steady and lighthearted, with share interests like Henry and Catherine. The only thing that I would say I also want long term that I don't know if Henry has is, I don't know if I'd want him to be so far in the background. I do like that Darcy is really stoic and takes initiative sometimes. I think I would feel protected and supported by the strength of Darcy's personality and the action that he takes.

izzy:
Yeah, okay, I think that's definitely something interesting. And I think, so I was just thinking that from my own perspective is, like Catherine and Henry, like Catherine's quite young when they first meet and they basically grow up together. And it made me think of that, like my relationship with Nick is like we met when we were 18 and we kind of grown up together as well. And I'm like, I feel like it's good if you meet younger to have that space where you can still grow as an individual. Like, do you know what I mean? to do or not say to you like, they're gonna be just be like, you know what, this is my thoughts boy. Like I'm gonna let you live your life and make your own mistakes. I think that's good when you're young, if you meet someone when you're younger because you still grow as your own person. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm making any sense there.

caily:
That makes a ton of sense. I do think the point that you meet your partner in your life has a huge impact. And if it's a healthy dynamic, it should influence the way you show up. Like, I have a close friend who met her now husband. They've been together for over 10 years. And they never would have worked if they had had a dynamic where they had to be front and center lives non-stop. Like they were really good at showing up for each other, being there for each other, but also they went to different colleges. Like they let each other explore their individuality and they weren't each other's everything and that's why they ended up together and are in such a healthy space. So I totally get what you're saying.

izzy:
Yeah, and I think, whereas I know Elizabeth isn't older, but she's older than Catherine. I'm just saying like sometimes when you meet someone later in life, you've already had life experiences. You've also, you've lived independently. You've kind of grown as like an individual and everything at that point. And then I feel like you can be more, I don't know, I feel like you can instantly become a team as opposed to having that dynamic between teamwork and like growing as an individual. I feel like I'm trying to make sense here, I don't know if I am.

caily:
You, sorry, you looked, sorry, your expression, the way you looked at me was like, it was like, I don't

izzy:
Tell

caily:
understand,

izzy:
me, am I making

caily:
please.

izzy:
sense?

caily:
No, no, you are making sense, yes. I totally, I totally see what you're saying. Yeah, I don't know.

izzy:
We do not have an answer, like yes, loads of people love Darcy and I genuinely think that's maybe just because I think Pride and Prejudice is just more well known and more popular and people have seen the, you know, the adaptations probably more than people have read and watched the North Anger Abbey adaptations. of a hero is full of the waistline. I mean do you have a favorite hero?

caily:
Mr. Knightley.

izzy:
Yeah, I'd say probably Mr. Knightley's mind. Maybe like a mixture of like Mr. Knightley and oh, I don't know, oh gosh, now we're getting into it. I'm doing a new YS though, because gosh, that's a hot topic in itself. But yeah, I like Mr. Knightley as well. So I feel like it is different once you've read all the books because then you can take a better perspective if you look across the board of the different qualities and then what you want personally in a person.

caily:
Ah, Edmund was your favorite, is he?

izzy:
do not speak to me about Ed.

caily:
Sorry, Izzy is not a huge fan of Edmund.

izzy:
Edmund doesn't even fall in my hero category, okay?

caily:
Yeah. I get it. Well, you love fanny too, so it makes sense.

izzy:
know,

caily:
I'm just gonna go back to the beginning.

izzy:
I'm starting to think I actually it's not that I hate Fanny is that I actually really dislike Edmund in the fact that Fanny is so into Edmund just bothers me entirely. I'm literally just like, you know what Fanny you could have done so much better with somebody else. I could have liked you so much more had you, you know, gone for someone else because I feel like Edmund is totally problematic. But oh my gosh, I'm gonna get into a hole. I could sit here for like 10,000 hours Let's not get into that.

caily:
We'll go there another time. But I did love what you said about the exposure to Austin. I think you're right that Pride and Prejudice is the probably most exciting plot to follow. And I just think Pride and Prejudice has had the most exposure. So Mr. Darcy might be talked about because some people have only heard of and read Pride and Prejudice. And so if they had read all six novels, just like you said, their favorite. And also I noticed that polarizing characters with a lot of strength in some ways, people tend to be more magnetized to those characters.

izzy:
I love that. Yeah, I think that's a great way to wrap that one up. That was a fun one though, I liked that.

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
Are you ready for the next one? Because this one's gonna hit hard as well. I'm not like, messing around to these. These are some tough

caily:
I know, oh my gosh. I'm nervous for

izzy:
topics.

caily:
this one.

izzy:
Okay, so the next one was both, I got it twice on Instagram actually. And so I'm gonna read out both comments that I got on Instagram because I think they're both really good and they kind of cross over in my mind, conversation goes. And so the first one said Pride and Prejudice 1995 and 2005 are separate entities and I can love both equally without comparing them. And then the other comment was the 2005 Pride and Prejudice chose Beauty over Substance and it disappoints me every time. So I feel like these are two separate conversations but I feel like they may cross over so I just wanted to I mean, I know it's like a point of, like, massive debate in the Jane Austen community, like people liking the 2005 and 1995, the Who's the Better Darcy argument, which gosh, that gets people heated, but yeah, I'd love to know your thoughts on the two adaptations, and whether or not you can love them as separate entities, or if there is room for comparison.

caily:
That's interesting, the two comments that you just read. I disagree slightly with both of them. I think you can love the 1995 and 2005 version for different reasons, which is true for me. But it's impossible not to compare them, and I think it's okay to compare them because they are the same story. And read the second, what was the second comment again?

izzy:
Okay, so the second one said, the 2005 Pride and Prejudice chose beauty over substance and it disappoints me every time.

caily:
I think that's too harsh. I see the point and I think the 2005 version has stunning cinematography. Absolutely beautiful, but I don't think that's fair because I think they're trying to portray the state of the of the Bennet's lifestyle in a really realistic way. Like there are pigs and chickens around and there aren't beautiful rugged. It is beautifully done, but

izzy:
gosh

caily:
okay.

izzy:
I feel like we're gonna totally disagree on that stance in particular though you know. Like

caily:
Oh,

izzy:
I think

caily:
okay.

izzy:
in the 2005 one they don't portray the Benets well at all like I think they I don't really get why they're like living, like I get that they have an estate and on the estate they probably have farm animals and like a farm situation going on. But they're literally like living in the farm, like they got pigs running through the house and like they do their own like laundry and everything. And I know that then it's like struggling for money, but they're not at that point, I don't believe, like in the book, like I didn't feel that. I'm like, I get that they're maybe a little bit tight on cash, but they're still, you know, able to live a gentile lifestyle.

caily:
And that's more what I'm saying is that's why if you labeled it as beautiful, I don't think that's really fair because they kind of portray them in this as living in dirty conditions and they sort of exaggerate that because yeah in the book it's a little bit more genteel but I think 2005 is trying to really exaggerate the class differences. So what I would say is I'm biased, I grew up the 1995 miniseries, and I had seen it probably at least 50 times. It just was totally ingrained in me from a young age. I just loved it. I just loved it. I had every line memorized. I like that the 1995 version really includes all of the important aspects of the plot, in my opinion, and they honor Jane Austen's language. I

izzy:
and the

caily:
understand

izzy:
correct development.

caily:
that sometimes you have to modernize the language can understand, but they really use her language and they don't modernize too much, and the plot doesn't feel rushed. And so the 2005 version to me, in recent years I've appreciated it more. I think there's more of that intensity and humanness. The chemistry is like, is so palpable, which is and Kira Knightley actually dated the wicca-mactor, not Darcy, but you can just feel the palpable chemistry in the 2005 version and there's a humanness to that one that I really like, but as far as the plot goes I feel like the language is simplified and I feel like the plot is very very rushed in the 2005 version and I don't appreciate that aspect of it.

izzy:
Yes, no, I really agree with that. Something that I've, like I love the 2005 one, but like you, I grew up with the 1995 one and that was like fully ingrained in my brain when I was like, you know, in primary school, like I literally was raised on that, that was, I was just set up to be a Jane Austen fan and um yeah, I mean, did I ever tell you that I went to Will Book Day dressed as Elizabeth Bennett? So I was in primary school, so I must have been like seven or eight or something went to Will Buckjave just as Elizabeth Bennett and nobody knew who I was. It's so funny my mum made me an outfit with like a pillowcase so that I could dress up as Lizzie Bennett. It's so funny but yeah no one knew who I was obviously because I was like seven so nobody had read the book but I was going that one was like you know it's a book so you can go with Elizabeth.

caily:
Oh my gosh, I would have known Izzy, I would have known who you were and that just makes me more and more be like we were destined to become friends because I did the same thing. It wasn't even an event. We were going to the grocery store and I like put Jennifer Elly's mole right here and like did the curls around my head like really it was very extra.

izzy:
Oh my god, I'm dying, that's so funny. But yeah, I grew up with that one, so I'll always love it. And for me, I feel like the comparison comes between the book in the 1995 one fall on one side and the 2005 fall on another. I feel like that is an artistic expression of the novel and the story. Whereas I feel like the 1995 one, like most BBC adaptations, is a very accurate portrayal of the plot, the

caily:
Mm-hmm

izzy:
narrative and the characters me about the 2005 one is because they cut out scenes, they cut out a lot of character development from some of the secondary

caily:
Yes.

izzy:
characters.

caily:
Yes.

izzy:
I mean for one we're missing one of the Bingley sisters which I think does make a massive impact on Caroline's behaviour. I think like the other sister eggs are on, I feel like we see Elizabeth having to put up with a lot more when it's two sisters as opposed to one that she's having to deal with. We lose so much of Mrs. Gardner's character development and

caily:
I'm the youngest.

izzy:
her support of Elizabeth and oh my god, me so much. So if unless so some of you may have not read this but I actually wrote an article for the Jane Austen Literacy Foundation it was in there they have like an article or that they put issues out it's called Pride and Possibilities and I wrote a whole article on Mrs. Gardner because I truly believe she's a very significant character and I think she's incredibly impactful on Elizabeth's journey so it upsets me that we don't see more of her in the the garden is more as a pair and I don't think Mrs. Garden gets enough airtime on her own to show like what a strong and impactful character she is in her own right.

caily:
Yes, and if you haven't read that article at all, it's so good. You definitely need to read it, as he did a great job. And I agree, Mrs. Gardner is so important, because I think the fact that Mr. Darcy is truly fond of the gardeners, that is part of his whole character redemption, too, that he does, when someone has a good personality and a good sense of morality, So I agree with that. I just think exactly. Certain character development, they don't have time for it. And then certain, I agree with you on the artistry. 2005 is such a beautifully artistic movie in it. It captures the emotional intensity of the character so well, I love all of that. But I think a lot of the actors in the 1995 version of the characters from the book. For example, we all know that Judy Dench is a phenomenal actress, but I think the 1995 Lady Catherine DeBurg does a much better job. And I also, for as endearing as Mr. Bennett is in the tooth, oh I'm sorry, Mr. Bingley is in the 2005 version, I think they exaggerate him socially unaware and kind of dumb and I like his depiction a lot more in the 1995 version and I think that depiction shows that he's more James equal. So that might be an unpopular opinion.

izzy:
Yes. No, I love that. I think in the 2005 when he comes across really young and immature, and I almost feel as if it's like Jane has way more maturity in, I don't know, just wisdom than Mr. Bingley. And I don't think that's quite right. I feel like they're set up to be equals. Yes, they've got those more like softer undertones of their personalities. They're much more sensitive people. But I don't think that make, I don't think that's portrayed well in the 2005 one. shows that but then it also shows this like weird dynamic where Mr. Bingley kind of appears a bit like a child that needs to be like lushed around by Mr. Darcy. Whereas in the 1995 one I think it shows that maybe he's not, he's not like that strong, bold character who can stand up to Darcy but I think it shows that he is still a respectable and you know confident person in his own right.

caily:
Exactly, yes. He's a catch. He is really sociable. He's the one who carries the social dynamics in the friendship. That's why it's so annoying that they have Mr. Bingley be socially inept, because with Darcy and Mr. Bingley, the reason that they are on even playing fields is Darcy is actually more socially awkward. And Bingley's the one who connects with everyone. He's so charismatic. He sees the best in people. And then, yeah, the reason that he can't stand up is he's just a little bit naive and doesn't want to think badly of people. But he's not some bumbling idiot. So I'm glad you understand that. And yeah, for whatever reason, Rosamund Pike with that actor, it just seemed more like a maternal son. It just, yeah, he seemed young for her and mentally in every way, yeah.

izzy:
I also remember that Mr. Bingley is not stupid. Like he is thriving new money. You know, his family have come up from trade, his father set up and he was really successful. They don't yet own their own estate. That's why he's renting Neverfield. And basically Mr. Bingley's part is like second generation wealth in their family is that he is trying to find an estate and he's trying to build connections so that he's more established in, you know, Gentile society, which is why Mr. Darcy and his friendship is so amazing because in terms of family standings, Mr. Darcy's got way deeper roots in terms of wealth and society compared to Mr. Bingley. But Mr. Bingley's still obviously got a thriving entrepreneurial side to him. And he's running all of the money for his sisters because obviously his father's died. So he's the man of the household and he's only got one sister married. So he's still got another sister to worry about. minute consider him to be, you know, stupid. He goes to London for business. That's like one of the reasons why he, you know, leaves.

caily:
Exactly, I'm so glad that you understand my perspective on that. I just found it belittling to Mr. Bingley's character in the way they portrayed him in the 2005 version, but I think that this might be an unpopular opinion because I know a lot of people love that actor and find him very endearing in that role.

izzy:
He's not endearing. Like I wouldn't say he's not. Like I think he is endearing and I think there's... I think he's really enjoyable to watch but yeah I think... When you... I think again that's just like... Character development has just become lost. I think because they've had to condense it down so much they have to take out certain aspects of people's personality so that it fits better. I think about even Wickham. Like I think they maybe mention... No I don't even think they mention it. maybe they do like slightly, but in the 1995 when we actually see him like starting to dance for Mary King and starting to like interact with it and we see Mrs. Gardner being like, I'm not sure about this, like


izzy:
he seems like a bit of a gold digger. And you know, the red flags are kind of set before Darcy even says to Elizabeth. And so there's already people who start to turn the wheels for Elizabeth and like that Mr. Wickham's maybe not this great guy. And, you know, she still holds to guns that he is obviously because she goes and like confronts Darcy about it. I think all of those things are important and we do lose that in the 2005 one. We lose that in a lot of the film adaptations compared to the you know the BBC ones where they have the leeway of having more time. Like I'm such a sucker for the 2009 M.R. adaptation, like to me that is perfection

caily:
Thank you.

izzy:
and honestly no film matches up for me with that one. With the Pride and Prejudice I'm a little bit more like I like both of them but with the M or I'm just like no 2009 or nothing!

caily:
Oh my gosh, I have seen that one. I'll have to rewatch it though because I didn't have that reaction of it being so above and beyond the other one. So I'll have to go back and give that another chance for sure. But yeah, I think you're right. I think we have to, in fairness, the 2005 version, because it's a movie, had to condense. But I just think the story, I appreciate the slower build of character development and the air of mystery that's in it and I think it makes it a much more powerful story so maybe Pride and Prejudice is just better served being a mini series of some kind. Yeah,

izzy:
And

caily:
I...

izzy:
then so many people came into it, didn't they, from the 2005 ones? So it obviously captured people's hearts because I know so many people that their introduction to Pride and Prejudice was, or their introduction to Jane Austen even was the 2005 adaptation in... I can kinda get it, it's beautiful, it's exciting, it's just... Yeah, and I love all the earthy tones, I'm here for earthy tones like, you know, greens and browns.

caily:
Yeah, and I am forever grateful that it did get Jane Austen's so much publicity and so many people love that version and I enjoy that version. And maybe, you know, in fairness, the 1995 miniseries, it's a commitment. It's a lot of times. You have to get really into it. I have to ask you, which Mr. Collins do you prefer?

izzy:
1995 for sure. He is so creepy and cringe. Oh my gosh, like he's got like greasy hair and it's just oh it's bad. It's bad friends. It's in his dancing. Oh my god, honestly.

caily:
All the way

izzy:
I know

caily:
in the

izzy:
when

caily:
small

izzy:
he's like prancing

caily:
area.

izzy:
around. Oh gosh, don't. I kind of, yeah, I don't feel like that portrays Mr. Collins really well, especially if you pick up on the kind of more evil undertones 2005 one which I think showed him more is like more sympathetically that you could pity him more and kind of just feel bad for him like he's just a bit of a weird guy um but you know what bothers a lot of people though is Mr. Collins isn't actually short like in the book he's not described as short I think he's even described as tall like he's I don't know why they picked that I'm guessing for like some sort of like power struggle between him and Darcy but I'm like yeah it's that was a

caily:
That's true, that's true. Yeah, he's described as tall and kind of bumbling, like having an awkward gait, which, oh my gosh, David Bamberg does so well in the 1995 version. He's just tripping everywhere. Remember when he's in the car and he almost falls out and he's like, have a cab Dawkins. It's just so awkward.

izzy:
Do you remember when he walks in on Lydia? Oh no, Lydia comes out in the hallway and she's like half dressed. And

caily:
Oh my

izzy:
he

caily:
gosh.

izzy:
doesn't know what to do. He's like, oh my god. That's actually brilliant, honestly.

caily:
I love that so much. Yeah, I think you're probably right about him being shorter in the 2005 version so that it would just, yeah, the power struggle with him and Darcy, that's smart. He just looks awkward with Kira Knightley because she's pretty tall. Yeah, so above and beyond love, the 1995 Mr. Collins, but I will say I do really like What a creep and like when he's dancing so close to her face, so he does a good job too. Um, yeah, I'll say

izzy:
agree. I don't have too many. There's obviously actors and characters that I prefer and the different adaptations that most of them do fall that I prefer the ones in the 1995 one just because I think they more accurately portray the book versions of the characters. But I never go into that whole argument between like Matthew McFadden or Colin Firth. Like I just don't, films. You know what I'm saying? Like they are very much elements of their own movie, like their own films in TV series. You couldn't change them over and because you can't change them over I'm just like, I struggle more to compare the two Darcy's and then I do the two mediums. Does that make sense? I'm like, I can compare the TV series to the film but comparing the specific Darcy's I'm just like, I don't know because they fit there, they fit the content that

caily:
110% agree. When you said that, I never even thought about that. I was like mentally going like this because I was trying to think of Colin Firth in the 2005 and Vyce Fursa Yeah, it wouldn't work. They're well suited to the productions they're in for sure.

izzy:
I think so. I think they soften all of the characters for the 2005 one to make them more accessible to people because I think there's nuances to all of the characters in Pride and Prejudice that I think... I think to all Jane Austen's characters, you know, she's very clear that people aren't perfect, they've got flaws and she is not shy about showing them, whereas I feel like in the 2005 one, they're a little bit like, let's just dampen people's flaws a little bit so that they're not so obvious. I've got some more perfect people out here. at way more than the 2005.

caily:
I love Mr. Bennett in that version. He just has such a twinkle in his eye, and the way his sarcasm is perfect in the way he interacts with Mr. Collins, the way he smiles at Lizzie. The one thing that I'll give Donald Sutherland credit about is when he talks to Lizzie about Darcy's proposal, and he's like, I'd never part with you for someone, when his eyes well up with tears, that part really touched my heart. So I was like, all right, Donald, you redeemed yourself in that moment. But for all the rest of it, I love that 1995 Mr. Bennett. And I also love Mrs. Bennett too, in 1995 version.

izzy:
Yeah, she's so funny. Oh my gosh.

caily:
Where is

izzy:
Oh,

caily:
he? Where

izzy:
I mean,

caily:
is he?

izzy:
obviously, like, we're just suckers for the 1995 one. What can we say? It's just, I feel like when

caily:
Yeah

izzy:
you're raised on it, that's just, it's just ingrained and it's like, but I like that both of us also enjoy the 2005 one. I don't have any issues with that at all. I enjoy watching it. I find it super enjoyable. It's also easier if I'm with people who are I want to watch Pride and Prejudice. I'm like, how about we watch the 2005 one? Because I know if I'm like 1995, they'll be like, hell to the no. Like,

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
I'm not committing to that. So I'm like, that's an easier in for me. So, um, yeah, I mean, what can we say? I think you can enjoy them separately without comparing. I think people get sometimes too intense with the comparisons for them, having their both good in their own rights. And I think that they grand scheme of things, but I think that makes sense for the, because of how short the film is and because it wanted to reach a, you know, a larger audience. Is amazing as the 1995 version is. I can understand why that didn't, well obviously it reached a lot of people at the time, but I can understand why it's not necessarily continued to keep reaching people like the 2005 one has. Usually people come to the 1995 one after they've seen the 2005 one now. See you next time.

caily:
I completely agree with that. I think it's impossible not to compare the two, but I think they have different things to offer in their own way. And as much as I do prefer and love the 1995 version, I do think that in addition to the cinematography and beauty portrayed in the 2005 version, I think there's an element of There's an element of like empathy and empathy for the human condition or like when Mr. Bennett is hugging Mary crying like there's I feel like the 2000 version pulls at your heartstrings on an emotional level that I really appreciate.

izzy:
Yeah, again, I think that's another reason why it's more accessible to people nowadays because I feel like the 1995 version might be seen as a bit cold, just because

caily:
I'm

izzy:
it's

caily:
just

izzy:
more

caily:
gonna go

izzy:
accurately

caily:
through.

izzy:
portrayed in the book and people weren't necessarily as hands-on and, you know, like that's why balls were such a big thing because people were actually being intimate where they're not usually. So, yeah, I think, yeah, I think the 2005 one makes more sense because otherwise people would be like everybody's so mean and cold and just, you know, nobody gets very close. We loved all the memes over COVID where people are literally just like COVID's like being in a Jane Austen novel because everyone's stunned like so far away from each other.

caily:
That's such a good point. Oh my gosh, and since we're talking about different reviews, unpopular reviews, one of my favorites of all time was that one star rating of pride and prejudice that in the person just put just a bunch of people going to each other's houses.

izzy:
I'm pretty sure that's just every single Jane Austen old to be perfectly honest with you.

caily:
You have a point.

izzy:
That's so funny. Yeah, I loved that one. That was a lot of fun though. Are you ready to move on to the next one? 
izzy:
Okay so the next topic that we have, so this is one that I actually found on Reddit but I found super interesting and one that I wanted to chat to you about. So basically the post said, Mr. Bennet is a bad husband and father and oh my gosh this took me on a bit of a, you know, rabbit hole of this like whole subreddit on people just like not liking Mr. Bennet and thinking as a father and as a husband and everything and I was like, like wow, like I feel like this is, this is worth chatting about because I have always really liked Mr. Bennett. I do recognize that he isn't the best of fathers to the younger girls but I don't think it's necessarily intentional. I think it's actually just a personality thing but I'd love to chat about it, you know, what's

caily:
Yeah, this is so interesting. I'm feeling kind of contemplative about it because, yeah, I've always loved his character. He's so, he has such a funny wit. His reactions to Mrs. Bennett are hysterical. Like, I think he provides a lot of comic relief in the novel and his special connection with Lizzie is so endearing. And so I've always really liked him too and kind of pitied him in a way it's clear he's not happy in his marriage but when you read that Mr. Bennett is a bad husband and father. I think that's fair. I think it's a fair comment. I think you know he married Mrs. Bennett when she was really beautiful and young and everything and obviously doesn't really respect her as a person and of course she's very annoying but it's like he becomes disillusioned by her and This makes her look ridiculous all the time and winds her up. So I don't think, I think if he were a good husband, he'd be more reassuring of her and calm her anxieties. So yeah, as a husband and he's not responsible financially, he retreats to his library. Mrs. Bennett, part of the reason she feels so frantic is Mr. Bennett isn't taking a lot I don't know, what do you think about that?

izzy:
That is true, I kind of get the sense that he's kind of like drowning in all of the issues and in his result is just like retreating into the world that he enjoys, just like reading in his library, being on his own and just maybe burying his head in the sand a little bit, just about like everything else that's going on, which must be pretty overwhelming. I mean, he's the head of the household and his household is made up of, you know, like all women, it's just like, it's just loads of women, age is not very practical because basically at least one of his daughters needs to marry well to secure the others and he's got a lot of daughters to marry off and also the estate's going to be entailed away and entailed away to his, well to the cousin Mr. Collins who, it's said that him and Mr. Bennett and his brother didn't have a great relationship or something and to that side of the family and things. So yeah, I can kind of see in Barry and his head is in the sand a little bit. But yeah, you're right. I mean, he is, he isn't a great husband to Mrs. Bennett. But then show me an example in Jane Austen's work where they have a, like a pretty, you know, nerve and crazed wife and a husband that's really sympathetic and supportive. I mean, it makes me think of like the Palmer's like Mr. Palmer

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
over Mrs. Palmer.

caily:
Thank you.

izzy:
And then like the Allens, like if you think about Mr. and Mrs. Allen, when they take Catherine's Hugh bath, like Mrs. Allen's like fretting about like, we don't know anybody what we're gonna do, this is all very awkward. Mr. Allen, Mr. Allen, he's just like, he's gone. He's just like, I'm out of here. I think about the Musgroves, Mary is like crazy and like super anxious and nervous all the time and Charles is, you know, living in his own world, you know, going on about random stuff. sympathetic husband to the you know nervous wife.

caily:
You're right, that shows up a ton and you would see why Mr. Bennett would want to retreat to his library being around that all the time. But I just thought of one actually, the gardeners.

izzy:
but you can make this gardeners nervous and erratic.

caily:
Oh, sorry, I have an example of someone who isn't nervous and who's husband shows up in a

izzy:
Oh,

caily:
calm

izzy:
sorry,

caily:
way.

izzy:
no, I meant like through me an example of a husband who has a nervous and erratic wife in shows up.

caily:
Oh, oh, okay. Alright, no, I can't think of one. There you

izzy:
Where

caily:
go.

izzy:
is this husband? You know, I just think maybe that was just like a common theme in Austin's work that she kind of shows that dynamic that it's kind of like this, the wife that's a little bit crazy and maybe a little bit more like socially obsessed than the husband who likes to retreat and it just hasn't got the time to deal with the craziness. But that's not to say that it's good and right. three younger daughters and so that's why I think he kind of cuts them off. But also I was thinking about this earlier and Jane and Elizabeth are like unproblematic children. Do you know what I mean? They're like self-sufficient, they do their own stuff. Jane pretty much is the mediator in the house, like she keeps everything calm. So what does he need to do for them? Nothing. He even says, you know, wherever you and Jane go, you like you will be respected and people will, you know, with you, your three younger sisters, that's a different story, but you know, he knows that they, he doesn't need to do any work for them the way that he sees it. He goes and calls on Mr. Bingley, I know he teases Mrs. Bennett about that he doesn't, but he does go and do that. So he just set it up that Elizabeth and Jane could potentially have a good match, but I don't know what else he necessarily needs to do for them, they're pretty sorted apart from the fact that he could handle his finances a bit better.

caily:
That is such a good point. And so yeah, I think it's good that we give him credit that even though he was winding Mrs. Bennett up, he did go visit Mr. Bingley. So he did do the thing he needed to do to establish the connection. But apart from that, just like you said, I see this person's argument that he's not a good husband and father because of his apathy. Maybe he himself is nervous about the financial situation, but however he handled it, he kind of went into denial things actively and then kind of makes fun of his wife for fretting about it. He's the one who, he's not in control of the entail, but he's the one who put them in this more dire financial situation. And like you said, Jane and Lizzie are really self-sufficient and well-rounded and he really could have used his influence in a positive way because he is a smart, measured man. And instead of treats and he makes fun of them to their faces and he says that they're three of the silliest girls in England and even though Lydia laughs it off and None of them really react to it when you're a girl in your teens you care so much about your parents Opinions and there's no way you don't internalize part of that Yeah, so I think that was really wrong

izzy:
is true and I actually feel the worst for Mary because I feel like Mary isn't you know being daft and embarrassing herself in society. I think she maybe accidentally does like sometimes when she's like over excited about playing the piano and things in public. I mean isn't that great, but isn't that great at singing. But I think in terms of like her interest, they aren't too far likes to have like philosophical insightful conversations, yes they are heavy on like the religious side which I think, I think you kind of get the sense from Mr. Bennett that he isn't massively religious in the sense that he kind of finds Mr. Collins and Mary kind of annoying and we don't hear him say anything that sounds particularly like religious or faith driven so but I don't, I don't understand his kind of like why he pins Mary with Lydia and Kitty between them personally. I don't see Mary's is silly and daft like Kitty and Lydia are.

caily:
She's not like, vacuous and she's not superficial. Like I think Lydia and Kitty are very into materialism, superficial things, boy crazy. She's not in that category. I think she's in a different category, but I think the reason Mr. Bennett doesn't have patience for her either is Mary's really pedantic and she puts on airs. Like she's so knowledgeable, but she actually doesn't know the right thing to say. line, Mary wished to say something sensible but knew not how. Like, the fact,

izzy:
Thank you.

caily:
I see, like, Mr. Bennett and Lizzie are both so socially savvy that when Mr. Collins is sitting there at the dinner table, Mary's looking at him like, oh, wow, you're so smart. And Mr. Bennett and Lizzie are both like, oh my gosh, what an idiot. So I think it's more, he thinks Mary's ridiculous because she's trying to be this great intellectual, category than Kitty and Lydia.

izzy:
I do think that Elizabeth and Mr. Bennett are quite harsh to people sometimes. Like, I think there's a reason that Jane Austen really liked Elizabeth and I think it's because she had a similar way of judging people.

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
Like, there's so much evidence in her letters that she wasn't the most sympathetic of people. Like, she would say some

caily:
Thank

izzy:
pretty

caily:
you.

izzy:
harsh things at times. And she didn't mind like poking fun at people even if it came across kind of mean at times. And I feel like Elizabeth and Mr. Bennett share that, they're inside jokes they do humiliate people like even if it's just between the

caily:
MBC 뉴스 김성현입니다.

izzy:
two of them they really do do that I mean I feel like they they have this sense that they are kind of superior even if it's not a I feel like it's like an intellectual superiority that they think they're like above everybody else and they can have these private jokes and conversations that nobody else gets and knows about and if you don't then everyone else is daft in comparison

caily:
Mmm. I think that's especially fair for Mr. Bennett. I think it's more even a social intelligence. He and Lizzie are socially intelligent. And Jane is too, to I think a little lesser degree or maybe the same, but isn't gonna make fun of people because she's too

izzy:
want

caily:
nice.

izzy:
to make sport of her neighbours like they do.

caily:
Oh my gosh, yeah, oh my gosh, but I agree. I think the mean spirited It's more he's probably trying to just entertain himself, but he does belittle people in his family He'll make fun of them and it's not it's not nice how whatever the intention is

izzy:
In defense of him in terms of the financial situation though, obviously they needed a son and they wanted a son. The fact that a son never came, can we blame him for that? That's not his fault that there was never an heir to the fortune because having a son isn't just that the property gets into it, like obviously gets passed down to the son. The son has the ability to go out and make more money and

caily:
Mm-hmm.

izzy:
so the fact that Mr. Bennett is getting older, he's got this one estate and he's got no one else to contribute to their family part, I think is a massive burden. Supporting five daughters is a lot. Like that is a lot of people support, and your wife. You know, that's a lot. And he makes the point of saying like, you know, even with Lydia getting married off to Wiccan, like he's saving, because he was like spending so much money on her pocket money, because she like spends like her money all the time. And so, yeah, I think in terms of financially, I think you have to consider that is that, He is the sole breadwinner because that's how it was back then, like the women couldn't go and get a job And so it all falls on his shoulders And I think that is a heavy burden to bear and I don't think we can Criticize him because he wasn't able to air a son

caily:
Yeah, I think that's so fair. I think the entailment system was so unfair, obviously, and it's not his fault that he couldn't air a son. I think it's more, I think it's more especially once he had a few daughters in a row. I remember there's this part where he basically says, oh, I didn't start saving up at the beginning because I banked on the fact I was going to have a son and then when I realized, you know, that might not happen, So it's I just think he could have had a little bit more foresight and taken more initiative Earlier to make sure that his daughters were you know financially okay, and I agree with you that it was a huge burden it was a huge burden on him and Everyone makes mistakes and he clearly does have regrets about it

izzy:
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine so. Yeah. I think it's such a tough one, like, oh, I don't know, like, I I do see why he's a bad father and I think there's worse though. I think there's a lot like, there's what, like, worse parents or worse parent-child dynamics that, you know, out there for sure. But I do think for the younger sisters it is pretty, um, pretty terrible and gosh, I mean, Mr. Bennett being able to sort the situation with Lydia out successfully. I think that would have been it. Like I'd like to say, I don't think he has enough foresight to be able to deal with problems like that. I think he is someone that just retreats into his head. And if something becomes an external problem that he's got to sort, I think he has no skills whatsoever. And I don't know what he would have done. And obviously in the 2005 adaptation, they have the gardeners with no children. But in the book, the gardeners have like tons of their own kids anyway. So even though the thought is that the gardeners pay for Lydia and for Wiccans commission and for Lydia and Wiccan to get married. I don't see how they could have for what Wiccan wanted, money-wise. I don't see how they could have done that, support their own children. Yeah, for me I'm just like, thank god that Darcy had such strong feelings for Elizabeth because it would have been a mess otherwise.

caily:
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I had mixed feelings when you said that because I agree that Mr. Bennett wouldn't have been able to resolve the situation. And I can't remember exactly what the quotation is, but. when he thinks that Mr. Gardner has been the one to save the situation, he's like, don't worry, Lizzie. I should feel badly about all of this, but I'll forgive myself sooner than I probably should. He acknowledges his apathy a little bit, and the fact that he doesn't take responsibility a whole ton, he acknowledges his character flaws. And at the same time, he did step up, and he did go to London, and he did try to look for her. Yeah, I think in this situation, I would think it's too exaggerated to call him a villain. I don't think he's a villain. I think he's somewhere, he's a character that's in the middle. I think he's not the best husband and father in certain ways. I think he has a very tender relationship with Lizzie where he's a great father at the end when he says, I couldn't have parted with you for someone less worthy. Even though Mr. Darcy has a lot of money, he wanted to make sure that Lizzie loved him. up and then I think he's an endearing funny character so he's just someone who's in the middle, he's a human, he has flaws but also I still like him as a character and I see his good qualities.

izzy:
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, he's like an incredible father to Elizabeth, I would say, because he doesn't make her marry Mr. Collins, which Mrs. Bennett would have been right on that. Like she even tries to,

caily:
Oh yeah!

izzy:
you know, like he's like, you don't have to do that because I'm not losing my like favorite child and putting her in a situation where she's going to be unhappy in a marriage. And I actually don't think he would have forced any of his daughters into a marriage they'd be unhappy with because he knows what that's like. um obviously that Lydia and Wickham get married is because there is no choice in that situation it would ruin the entire family if they don't get married. In Lydia for all intents and purposes is happy to marry Wickham um but I don't think he would have forced any of his daughters to marry out of love if they wanted to marry for love. Does that make sense?

caily:
Absolutely, that was, I'm so glad you brought up that point and I realized, my gosh, I was not giving him enough credit. I think that's a hugely impressive moment on his part as a father that he said, that he said you'll be at a loss to one of your parents and he stood up and said, I don't want you to marry Mr. Collins. Because for him, that would have taken all the pressure off of his situation. If Lizzie had married Mr. Collins, the financial, taken care of. That would have logistically been night and day easier and less stressful for Mr. Bennett. But he loved his daughter. He didn't want his daughter to be with someone who is lesser than her and an idiot. And that was a big moment where he stepped up as a father. So yes, I totally agree. He was a good father to Elizabeth.

izzy:
I guess Devil's Advocate could be that he just didn't want Mr. Collins like more in his life than he already was. He's like,

caily:
Yeah, fair.

izzy:
I guess you could have like maybe said to like Mary because we all kind of ship the whole Mary and Mr. Collins thing. You could have been like, Mary, do you want to marry Mr. Collins? But yeah, I think that's like a massive thing that he doesn't do that. And I also think after the Lydia situation, he steps up more for Kitty and Mary. He's like, you are no way or you going away with any officers. in him because I have learned from this terrible mistake that I'm not, you know, I can't go like put anyone through this again. So he really puts his foot down at that point. And I think that like when it when there's kind of the descriptions at the end of the books about like Kitty and Mary after I think that changes their directory entirely, you know, I mean, they they go on a different path. When Lydia's out with a picture, you know, they, I can imagine that things are a lot better. And obviously, the financial burden is taken away because Lizzie and Jane both marry Yeah, I think he probably does step up a bit more after he realizes, you know, it could have been crisis point.

caily:
Yeah, I agree with that. I hope he doesn't overcorrect, and I hope Kitty was able to at least maybe go out in society sometimes. But yeah, I agree with what you're saying. I don't think he would want his daughters to marry anyone they didn't love. I think he steps up as a father after the mistake he's made with being too apathetic, surrounding Lydia. I also think he's a good, his really good qualities is he's a good judge of character. Like remember he laughs about Wickham being kind of a little bit sleazy. Like he reads Wickham really well kind of before anyone else and he'll make little comments here and there. And I think that those comments can have an impact too.

izzy:
Yeah, I think that would sway Lizzie because Lizzie's so proud about like her level of sense and judgments of people and I think like his comments where he's like, you know, maybe it's your time to be crossed in love and like he like says to Wickham like, let Wickham be the man. Let Wickham be the man to break your heart and I think those things would stick with someone like Elizabeth because she'd be like, look, my dad obviously thinks Wickham's not ideal and I that they have, like he has that kind of influence over it, it's not it's not harsh and direct, but it's just like these subtle comments that will make a difference. I personally believe.

caily:
I think so too. I think so too. And I think he just, he can diffuse things sometimes with you. He either can inflame or diffuse things with humor and his sense of humor just I think brings so much, so much joy to the novel I think.

izzy:
Yeah, I do. I've always been a big fan of him, but I do find this like subreddit of subreddit of Reddit really interesting. Like, I know people are really opinionated on this stance, and I don't see that on a lot of other platforms. So I think it is really interesting to see it from this stance and to really consider, you know, the ways that he does fall short for some of the other daughters. But in terms of a husband as well, I actually think the dynamic that he has with Mrs. Bennett is right, because what use would it be if he was freaking out as well? I think die. I genuinely think she's had a heart attack. If he was freaking out about everything and she was freaking out about everything, I actually think the fact that he seems so distant from the problems is probably helpful for her. Like I know that she's freaking out but I genuinely think the fact that he stays so like calm even if he's not, I think probably makes a massive difference and also just tries to make it humorous. Like don't take me so seriously, like I'm just joking, I have seen Mr. Pingling just playing with you like I feel like sometimes humorous is sometimes better than encouraging someone else to panic with you.

caily:
I think it is adaptive, right? Because I think it's good that he stays calm, and I think he would be a lot more annoyed or angry with her if he took everything she said seriously. So I think instead of getting annoyed, if he can turn it into humor, that keeps him calm. And so sometimes I think that's good. Sometimes I think it diffuses it. It reminds Mrs. Bennett not to take everything so seriously. And sometimes it makes her like, when he winds her up, but usually at the end he can calm her down.

izzy:
Yeah, but when she knows he's done the right thing, she's like, ha ha ha, isn't your father such a funny guy, like

caily:
That's

izzy:
teasing

caily:
true.

izzy:
us all.

caily:
Yeah,

izzy:
You know,

caily:
that's

izzy:
he just

caily:
true.

izzy:
lightens the mood a little bit because otherwise she's just so intense. I mean, she's absolutely hilarious, but yeah, I can, I do like that element. And I love in the 1995 one, the last comment that they make when he puts his arm around Mrs. Bennett and she's like, Mr. Bennett, God's been so kind to us. Darcy and Elizabeth

caily:
Wow.

izzy:
kiss. I just think that's like such a lovely scene. Like just

caily:
Yeah.

izzy:
to show that obviously I don't think it's, I don't think it's a, I don't really think it's a toxic relationship necessarily. I think personality-wise they don't click but I do think there is mutual affection there for the sense that they've, they're going through life together. Does that make sense?

caily:
Yes, I think toxic is too strong of a word. I think they realize pretty early in their marriage that they're not the most compatible in some ways, but they make it work. And they get to a balance. They always come back to a balance. And so you could argue it's functional.

izzy:
Yeah, yeah. I think so. I think so. Oh my gosh, okay. Are you happy to wrap it up there? That is everything from us today. I really enjoyed that, that was such a fun episode. So me and Kaylee are thinking that maybe we'll continue making stuff like this going forward. If you guys enjoy it, please let us know on Instagram, it really helps to get your feedback of what you think about the episodes. Or also on Spotify now, they give you the option to write in a Q and A. So if you wanna write any comments, I do see

caily:
MBC 뉴스 김지경입니다.

izzy:
them all. publish everything that comes through but I do publish a couple of them so yeah put in the Q&A your thoughts on this episode we would love to hear them that would be amazing. All right in the comments on YouTube you know let us know your thoughts that would be great because obviously I'm popping these on YouTube now so if you're listening on the podcast but you want to watch the video versions going forward make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel it's under the same name what the Austin podcast so yeah subscribe over there so you can see our bases as we're

caily:
Thank

izzy:
chatting

caily:
you.

izzy:
about these things but that is Kaylee, do you wanna let everyone know where they can find you?

caily:
Sure, I'm on Instagram. My handle is at half underscore agony underscore, half underscore hope. And I just, I post literature and psychology quotations and a lot of Jane Austen stuff. So I'd love to see you there. And again, we'd love to hear your feedback and your opinions on all of these topics. Yeah, we always love to hear what you think. So thank you so much for having me on. Again, I really appreciate it.

izzy:
and as always guys you can find me over on Instagram at what the Austin. I share stuff on there pretty regular so it'd be great to have you over there. You can find me on my personal page at Izzy Meakin that's both on YouTube and Instagram. I'm sharing things that are Jane Austen related, bookish related and just cozy content in general so yeah you can find me there also and if you want to join the Jane I try Patreon that would be amazing it would mean so much for you to discussions and polls over on the Patreon page so yeah it'd be lovely to see you over there. Otherwise that's everything from me today and I will see you in another episode.