What the Austen? Podcast

Episode 51: Sorting Jane Austen's Heroes into their Hogwarts Houses Pt 1

November 05, 2023 Izzy Meakin Episode 51
What the Austen? Podcast
Episode 51: Sorting Jane Austen's Heroes into their Hogwarts Houses Pt 1
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ready for a magical journey into the world of literature? We've got a spellbinding discussion lined up for you! Together with our guest Caily, we're revisiting the imaginative crossover of Jane Austen and Harry Potter. We dive headfirst into the complexities of these beloved characters and unravel their fit within the four quintessential Hogwarts houses. We promise you, by the end of this power-packed episode, you'll have a newfound appreciation for both Austen's characters and Rowling's magical universe.

We will be picking both a primary and secondary house for each as we did for there heroines. So, spark up your wands (or earbuds) and join us for an unforgettable literary journey.

If you want to tune into the episode we did matching the heroines to their Hogwarts Houses its here in two parts: 

The Story Chaser

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Website: www.whattheausten.com
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izzy:

Hi, janeites, and welcome back to the what the Austin podcast. Today we will be taking up our role again of the sorting cat. So last year we sorted Jane Austen Heroines into their Hogwarts houses. So me and Kaylee thought we'd come back and sort the heroes into their houses. So I really loved doing this last time. I always love a crossover episode and it's great to bring in, you know, multiple fictional loves to the podcast. Yeah, kaylee, welcome back to the pod.

Caily :

Thanks so much for having me back. I love sorting characters into Harry Potter houses because I think it really helps capture important personality traits and nuances of the characters and it really can help you identify what they truly value. So I love doing the episode with you on sorting the heroines into different houses, and it was so fun coming up with their primary house and then secondary house to honor the nuances of the characters, and so it's only fitting to also sort their love interests into primary and secondary houses and then hopefully we can see some compatibility between the two.

izzy:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I know you don't do all of the character studies on me because I obviously have the gaffes on, but the more character studies I do, if I cover, like some of the heroes or even, like you know, heroines anything the more, the more I get kind of like these details about their personalities that I'm like, oh my goodness. I think it's made it hard at this time actually, because I've done so many character studies since the last Harry Potter episode when I was trying to sort people. This time I was like, but what about this aspect of that personality? What about this characteristically? Where does this fit? And honestly, it was so much harder this time I feel like the more you know, the harder it is.

Caily :

I completely agree, and for certain characters, right away I had a primary house for them, but agreeing on this secondary house was difficult. I kept going back and forth and then I don't know if you had this experience too, but particularly one of the heroes I kept switching houses and it took so long to decide on one. So I am so curious to see how much we're in agreement and how much we differ on that particular character.

izzy:

Yeah, actually we have a lot of them. I was going backwards and forwards, I put the houses down as subtitles and then I'd noticed myself basically talking about entirely different house. When I started to add description and example. I was like I'm not even on about the same house anymore. So then I'd have to go back and change it.

Caily :

What's your name. I'm so glad you said that At one point. I put all of my notes down and I went through each hero and I just started writing down descriptive adjectives for each hero, because trying to write away, sort them into one of the four houses was just too difficult.

izzy:

It's so hard and because of this, I know that we're going to have so much to talk about. So, like the previous series that we did, what I'm going to do is split this into two episodes. So we're going to cover three novels today and three novels later in the month. So, yeah, I'm really excited to get into this today. It's going to be so much fun. And just a reminder to everybody, I'm now uploading, obviously, the video content to YouTube so you can also check us out over there. And, yeah, if you prefer the visuals, then go ahead. I know I was like watching and listening to podcasts. So, yeah, absolutely so. Shall we talk a little bit about the houses? Just give us like a good foundations to go from. I know we did this last time, but I think it's really helpful just so that we can kind of set the scene If there are, like characteristics of the houses, some notable characters from Harry Potter, that kind of thing.

Caily :

I think that's a great idea, just to have a refresher of the strengths and also weaknesses associated with each house.

izzy:

Yeah, yeah, I think so. So shall we kick things off with Ravenclaw then? So what the Sorting Hat says about Ravenclaw, or yet in Wise Old Ravenclaw, if you've already mind, where those of Witten Learning will always find their kind. So yeah, I mean, I'm partial to this house, obviously as a Ravenclaw, but I'll pass over to Kaylee to talk a bit about the. You know the strengths and the weaknesses.

Caily :

Absolutely so. I always thought it was helpful to look at each house by a core value and an external trait, and then actually one of the four elements. So again Ravenclaw's their external trait is intelligence, their core value is knowledge, their element is air and again, they're extremely individualistic. They are intelligent and this can be in many areas. To be an intelligent Ravenclaw you don't necessarily have to be book smart. They have a strong sense of individuality. You pointed out last time they have an excellent memory. So Ollivander obviously has remembered everyone he's ever made, and Gilderoy Lockhart was really adept at memory charms, and so Wisdom is the all-encompassing trait of Ravenclaw. Ravenclaws also have weaknesses, and one of the weaknesses is sort of an aloof detachment from reality sometimes, because Ravenclaws get very in their heads and they have a little bit of a tunnel vision when focusing on their passions. Anything you want to add to Ravenclaw.

izzy:

Yeah, I think like another weakness of Ravenclaws is they can often be like super competitive with other Ravenclaws, like within their houses, within their house. So you kind of see that when it comes to academic success, I feel like I saw something once that said that they often like backstab each other because they want to get the top marks, and I thought that was really interesting that they're not really like the team players that we see kind of with Gryffindor or also Slytherin, where they really stick together. So I thought that was kind of interesting that they really do lean on this kind of independence and individuality. And yeah, I just thought that was good to pick up as well.

Caily :

That's a really good point about Gryffindor and Slytherin really being loyal to the pack and team players, whereas, you're right, ravenclaws are very focused on personal identity development, more that individualism that you just talked about. And I think about that with Luna Lovegood. Think of her sense of fashion that's kind of pooky and out there, and think about the fact that she's labeled as spacey in a lot of ways, but then she also possesses so much wisdom when it comes to a lot of the larger issues and intuitive aspects that a lot of other people don't understand, like Harry not understanding why he could see the festivals. Luna's the one who explains that the two of them have experienced death, so that's why they're both able to see them when others can't.

izzy:

You know what's so funny. You know that she's got this quirky fashion sense. Do you know, when she loses her shoes, the converse of strawberries on and they're hanging from the ceiling. Do you remember that scene in the films? I had those exact converse when I was growing up. I honestly couldn't believe it. When I saw them in the film I was like, oh my gosh, I had those shoes.

Caily :

I love that, and you identify somewhat with Luna too. Right, like you said, she's your favorite character.

izzy:

Oh yeah, absolutely yeah. I think not just because like she's a Ravenclaw and I'm a Ravenclaw, but I just love that she's very true to herself and yeah, I know that she is like a little bit like strange at times, but I think she's like such a valuable asset. We see that when we've like Dumbledore's army and everything, she makes such a big difference, even like the first kind of task that they have. When they've got to try and get to Sirius in London and everyone's like how are we getting to London? And she's like well, fly, of course. I just love that. She's just kind of like there and she comes with the ideas. And also when Harry's like running around Hogwarts trying to figure out how he's going to get the, the diadem, and she's like like, what are you doing? Like a waste in time, like you need to go and speak to someone who's dad I just love. I just kind of love that she's like always there with like the, you know the quick solutions that they need.

Caily :

It's so true, in the crisis situations she stays so calm and grounded and I think that's another aspect of Ravenclaw is there's calm certainty in knowing who they are. Other people can't sway their sense of self.

izzy:

Yes, I love that and I think that kind of leads on as well to. I know you mentioned Lockhart with his like ability with memory charms and everything, but he was also, you know, extremely famous. Like everybody loved his work. He was a very successful author, he was super popular, and I think that's another characteristic of Ravenclaw is that they can kind of draw these people to them and create a bit of a following. Really, I think, because they often have this kind of unique way of looking at life or they're the inventors or the ideas, like the people coming with the big ideas, that kind of thing.

Caily :

That's so true about the charm. You know Molly Weasley had a huge crush on Gilda Ray Lockhart. He did have that following. He had that charisma, and that reminds me of Cho Cheng too. She was very charming, popular. Everyone had a crush on her. So, yeah, that's a really good point.

izzy:

I love it. Which, how shall we move on to next? Let's do. How about Hufflepuff? Okay, hufflepuff. So what does the sorting cat say about Hufflepuff? You might belong to Hufflepuff, where they are just unloyal. Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil.

Caily :

All right, yeah, hufflepuff. The external trait is their work ethic and their core value is fairness. Element is earth and flaw is an indecisiveness and a bit of a naivety where other people can sway them, hufflepuffs I think sometimes they get a little bit of a bad reputation. People sometimes overlook Hufflepuffs, but they're actually known as the voice of reason. They can stay very emotionally regulated, they're very patient, they're loyal to their friends, a strong sense of prudence and a high moral compass. We said before that Hufflepuffs would value a meritocracy. So you work for what you get and I think it's important to point out to how Hufflepuff is accepting of all people. So Hufflepuffs are very non-judgmental and will take everyone in and believe that everyone should be treated in a similar way. They believe in the value of humanity.

izzy:

Yes, I love that. I also think as well that sometimes Hufflepuffs can get a bad rep where people try and make out like they're stupid or they're not very intelligent. But I think that's totally far from the truth, because if you think of people like Newt from Fantastic Beasts, he's like an expert on magical creatures. Or you think about Tonks, she's a Hufflepuff and she's like an aura and she's like really skilled. And I mean to be an aura, you have to get pretty good grades, so she's probably pretty smart.

izzy:

And Cedric Diggory he's really intelligent and he goes all the way with the Triwizard Cup and everything. Is it called Triwizard? What's it called? Yeah, triwizard tournaments, something like the Triwizard something. Yeah, he goes all the way with the Triwizard tournaments and everything. So, yeah, I think they get a bad rep for that, but I think they definitely have that intelligence as well. I think it's more that they are often swayed by other people, which can sometimes make them come across as, like you said, like a bit naive or that they maybe aren't the smartest, but I think it's more that they're kind of looking for acceptance and so sometimes, you know, following the crowd is where they find that.

Caily :

I agree with you. I think the fact that they can be easily swayed makes them appear not very strong to certain people. But you do have characters like Cedric and Tonks who have this open energy that is so kind and sweet, right Like, I think, of any of the houses. Upon meeting them, you'd be most trusting of Hufflepuffs. There's just an acceptance about them that I think is very grounding.

izzy:

Yes, I love that. That's so good. Which house do you want to move on to next? Okay, okay, thanks for watching. I'll see you next time. Let's do Slytherin. Okay, I love this. We're going against the grain. You know, gryffindor will be the final house that we talk about, which is interesting, because I want to talk a little bit about the bias towards Gryffindor. So that will be good. But first let's talk about Slytherin. So what does the sorting hat say about Slytherin? Or perhaps in civ? Or perhaps Sivillin that's too funny, oh dear or perhaps in Slytherin you'll make your real friends. Those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends. So yeah, let's talk about Slytherin.

Caily :

So when I think about the core value for Slytherin, the core value is ambition and then the external trait is success. There are so many powerful, successful Slytherins. In Harry Potter. The element is water, which I think makes sense. They're mutable, they read social situations and they adapt. They're very resourceful and a flaw is obviously they can be malicious. Some Slytherins are power hungry and you know they have a sense of cunning which is excellent. In a lot of ways they can use their existing skills to their advantage. You want a Slytherin on your team if you're in a crisis, because a Slytherin will be very practical in knowing how to adapt. Sometimes Slytherins the way they're ambitious is they can focus a little bit too much on lineage, ancestry, status, but Slytherins are fiercely loyal and protective of their own. So once a Slytherin cares about you and values you and you're important to them, they will defend you and they will stay true to you. So I think that's why the sorting hat says you'll make your real friends there. A Slytherin is in it with you.

izzy:

Yeah, I love that. That was so good. Just something else that I'd probably add on that as well is I think you kind of mentioned this they have this real practical intelligence which I was just thinking about this time. If you look at people like Snape, if you look at Slughorn, or even Draco Malfoy, all of them are really good at potions and I thought isn't that such a practical skill to have, just like loads of different things? Look at Snape, with his I can't remember what it's called where he is able to enter Harry's mind and try and help him to protect himself against people like Invading Obviously it's Voldemort Invading his mind, what's that called?

Caily :

again, Legilimency and Occul.

izzy:

Occulamency or something like that. Occulamency, yeah, no, absolutely yeah. I think there's just certain skill sets that they have that I'm just like they're actually really practical skills. It's magic that you can use on the everyday. I think sometimes with Ravenclaws they can get caught up on things that maybe aren't as useful. It's just something that they're passionate about, whereas I think Slitheren's take a really practical approach to magic.

Caily :

Which makes so much sense. I agree with you. I think Ravenclaws can be a little bit in the clouds in their own heads and they have these brilliant ideas, but Slitheren's are so good with the practical application, like you said, because I think Slitheren's are so observant of everything, they're so shrewd, they're so savvy, like a Slitheren teacher is going to be the one who's observing all of the dynamics in class and you're not going to be able to get away with anything. They see everything.

izzy:

Yeah, something I love about Slitheren's as well is they have this kind of air of mystery and they often have more layers than you expect, Obviously. I mean we all know that from Snape's story, but I think you also do see that from Slitheren as well. Like he has his surface level person, but then he obviously also has all that past with, like Tom Riddle, where he's kind of opened up and he's become really close to these students and everything. So I feel like there's layers there as well. And yeah, I was just thinking that's really fascinating with Slitheren's. They're not like totally extroverted about everything, like their whole personalities. They do keep their kind of cards close to the chest and sometimes that's really valuable. I mean, look how that works out for Snape.

Caily :

That is so true, you have to peel back the layers of the onion. I think Slitheren's are private and secretive on some level and I'm so glad that Slughorn was added to the Harry Potter series because we get to meet a very fun, kind person who's a Slitheren, and I think earlier in the novels we saw a lot of power hungry Slitheren's and there are a lot of great Slitheren's out there. A lot of the people I love and know who I'm closest to would definitely fall into Slitheren house.

izzy:

Yeah, yeah, I think. So I'd say my secondary house is probably Slitheren. I think I read this I don't know if it was an article or maybe I read it post but someone was saying how most Harry Potter quizzes are kind of biased against Slitheren. So some of the questions that they ask which kind of link towards becoming a Slitheren, even if you would say yes to them, you wouldn't say yes to them because the way that the questions are worded seems so negative that you wouldn't reach out. And so there's like so few people who get sorted into Slitheren because just the way that the quizzes are worded and things like that was so fascinating to know. And I mean, like you said, the books have a certain bias, so they're biased towards Gryffindor because that's why the three protagonists lie. But yeah, I mean, on that note, we should talk about Gryffindor.

Caily :

Yeah, I just want to say I completely agree with you. I think the quizzes could make any of the houses look bad, Like you could say oh, are you naive or do you know what's going on around you if you want to slate Hufflepuff. But you're right that most of the quizzes are pretty harsh on Slitheren, so I'm glad you named that.

izzy:

Yeah, absolutely so. Moving on to Gryffindor then, what does the sorting cat say you might belong to Gryffindor where dwell the brave at heart. Their daring nerve and chivalry sets Gryffindors apart.

Caily :

Yeah, so Gryffindor's. Their external trait is they're known for their bravery, and then core value is justice. Flaws are they don't have very high levels of impulse control. They they'll be very reckless sometimes and sometimes a bit arrogant. To element is fire. They are known as the defenders of honor. They're the Knights, they're the protectors. They'll challenge authority in favor of justice, right. So sometimes they act before thinking, but intentions are always honorable. They think of the animal symbol, of the lion. They're very courageous and have a lot of energetic leadership presence. And again, they're their social justice warriors. They defend the underdog.

izzy:

Yeah, I love. That Always makes me think of like Hermione with with the house cells, like where she starts like that petition to try and like free all the house cells, and obviously we see that with Harry setting Dobby free as well. And I always think as well I Gryffindors, I think about Gryffindors. I always think of like a burning passion. Does that make sense? Like just like dark colors and just like I think it's because of that fire element. It's like you know that they can be explosive, for that can be positive and negative at times. Like it's just like that balance is in it between kind of holding back the flame a little bit.

Caily :

Exactly, yeah, with their element being fire. Fire is a warm, a bright thing, but it's also extremely intense and it can burn right. And so if you think of the large characters in Gryffindor we have I think of I'm glad you brought up Hermione because I always think of Hermione and McGonagall and apparently the sorting hat took almost the longest of any student to sort McGonagall and also took a really long time on Hermione because it was very close between Ravenclaw and Gryffindor. But end of the day, just like you said, hermione's commitment to social justice with spew, with the house elves organization, and also that quotation at the end of the Sorcerer's Stone where Harry talks about how smart Hermione is and she goes. There are more important things like friendship and bravery, and it's so important to remember about the houses that it's not only the characteristics that they possess, but it's also the characteristics that each character values the most right. And Hermione values bravery, she values fighting for what's right, and think about how fiery McGonagall is too in the name of justice and all that.

izzy:

So yeah, yes, I love that. That's such a good point. Yeah, I feel like it's the bravery that sometimes that kind of overrules I was just thinking what's just come to me as well, I guess another one that kind of toes on the line of two houses is never long bottom, like, if you think about it, like really, he would really fit into Hufflepuff, like with his ability with like plants and herbology and everything like that's a very much like a Hufflepuff subject. But yeah, he's because he's so brave and daring and loyal to his friends and challenges his friends. I think, like Dumbledore makes a point that he's able to like challenge his friends and that's really tough to do. But I feel like Gryffindor is quite good at that. Yeah, it's just interesting.

Caily :

Yeah, we everyone kind of wonders why he's in Gryffindor in the early days, because he's so kind of clumsy, unsure of himself. He's not a very likely hero, right. But even we see glimmers of his Gryffindor nature, even at the end of book one when, just like you said, he tries to stop Harry, ron and Hermione from getting out. He stands up to them and and then, oh my gosh, his character development by the end of the series and how he's leading the charge and kills the snake. And yeah, it's so interesting to see him come into his Gryffindor status by the end.

izzy:

Yes, I love that. So in today's episode we're going to be covering Pride and Prejudice, mansfield Park and Emma. So, yeah, that's the three novels for today. So, first up, which Hogwarts house would Mr Darcy be in? And we're going to pick a primary in a secondary house for him. So do you want me to kick things off with my thoughts? Do you want to go first?

Caily :

I would love you to kick it off, because I think we're starting off with the doozy. Mr Darcy was the hardest for me to sort. I don't know about you, so I am excited to see what you have to say.

izzy:

So just before we move on to the next topic, then I just want to say a little bit about our sponsor, house of Bennett. If, like me, you love taking a break from your modern life to escape into Jane Austen's world of handwritten letters, romantic Ronde views and long walks in the countryside, you will love the House of Bennett shop. House of Bennett offers stickers, pins, jewelry, totes, shirts and so much more All themes around your favorite classic literature and period dramas, including Jane Eyre, anne of Green Gables, little Women and, of course, the works of Jane Austen. Head over to HouseofBennettcom. That's H-A-U-S-O-F-B-E-N-N-E-T dot C-O-M, and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off at the checkout. So, once again, that's HouseofBennettcom and use my code WhatTheDiscount for 15% off.

izzy:

Okay, so I actually found his primary house not so difficult, but I really struggled with his secondary house. So, yeah, I'm going to be so interested to talk this through. So I don't know if you're going to be surprised. I'm kind of scared to say to you Okay, so the primary house that I picked for Mr Darcy was Slytherin and the secondary house was Gryffindor. Do we have the same? Is it different?

Caily :

Well, our primary is the same, which I love. I was nervous as well and I think some listeners might be mad at us, because you know listeners who don't like Slytherins might think what? Mr Darcy's our favorite. How can you call him a Slytherin? But I completely agree with you on Slytherin being the primary house. We differed on our secondary house actually.

izzy:

Okay, I'll tell you my reasoning for my primary and secondary that I'm so excited to hear what your secondary is. So a little bit about kind of Mr Darcy characteristics. First, he's known to be mysterious, unapproachable at times, quiet, loyal to those that he loves, and gallant. You know he really steps out to make things better for Elizabeth, which is a bit of a crisis. So the reasoning behind putting Slytherin as his primary house is he really reminds me of Snape. You know this kind of aloof Is that what you were going to say?

izzy:

He's kind of like this aloof, misunderstood character, but also someone who's like, willing to make big sacrifices and go to great lengths to someone that they love. Obviously we see that was Snape and Lily Potter. He pays for Wickham's commission when he runs off with Lydia because obviously otherwise that kind of ruins the Bennett family and that's a great risk to his own reputation and to Sister Secret. You know this is he really puts himself out on the line and doing that I don't think a lot of people realize that sometimes and he's overlooked by a character that's maybe initially considered more endearing or kind of the more exciting person. And we see that was Snape and James Potter. Like James Potter. Everybody loves James Potter, but then when we look into the past we realize that you know, james was actually bully and Snape and obviously when we get to all these letters we find out the past with him and Mr Wickham was that Wickham was like this rake all along and he was a fortune hunter. So I think it's interesting that they're kind of people that are a bit misunderstood and so, because Snape was a slither and that was kind of my initial thoughts on it, obviously Slytherin's often done reserved and so is Mr Darcy, that era of mystery that we were talking about. I think reputation and status is really important to Mr Darcy. At the start, like, if you think about his initial proposal to Elizabeth, it is like so bad.

izzy:

He makes like a point of saying that he has a sense of inferiority about her because she's you know, he considers her of like lower standing and like shuns her family and all sorts, which obviously is kind of a weakness of Slytherin's. It makes me think as well to the 2005 version. You know, when she rejects him he's like are you laughing at me? Are you rejecting me? And it makes me think about Draco so much. I feel like that would be his response to someone if they said something, and he makes the point to say to Lizzie that my parents taught me to do the right thing but they never taught me to be humble. And I think this sense of legacy is something that we see a lot through Harry Potter with Slytherins, you know. We see it with the Draco family, we see it with the House of Black.

izzy:

Even though obviously Sirius falls into Gryffindor, the rest of the family were all Slytherins, yeah, and I think my last point on it would be that Slytherins kind of sometimes look down on Gryffindors for being like these kind of over risk takers or just like really blunt and out there in. I think that he kind of looks down on Lizzie a little bit and I know obviously in a previous episode we talked about how Lizzie has these Gryffindor traits as well. So I thought he kind of looks down on Lizzie a little bit for being like that and the rest of her family and I think there is other family members who would fall into Gryffindor. I mean I know I argued in the past that Mrs Bennet would and I feel like Mr Dotsy really looks down on Mrs Bennet for being kind of overt about her feelings and like you know, just her thoughts and everything. So yeah, your thoughts.

Caily :

I'm just having a moment right now. I'm so happy. So many of the points you said are exactly what I was going to say. I think what I thought about is when we talked about earlier how Slytherins are a little bit more secretive and have a level of privacy where you don't fully get to know them until you peel back layers of the onion. So you know, when we first meet Mr Darcy he makes a horrible impression.

Caily :

Right, he's labeled as arrogant, as prideful, as holier than thou, thinking he's better than other people. And when I think of those traits I do think of maladaptive Slytherin traits. Right, slytherins are very prideful about status, or can be, and there can be an arrogance and, you're right, he does care a lot about the family name, his lineage. That's a Slytherin trait. He's ambitious to make sure that he marries someone that will bring his family honor that his family will approve of, and he does look down on the Bennett family and I think of this is interesting the minimal overlap that I see between Hufflepuff and Slytherin is I see Hufflepuff and Slytherin as both having characters that have a high level of emotional regulation, just like you said, and Gryffindors have low impulse control. So I do see a lot of Slytherins looking down on Gryffindors, just like Mr. Actually, I argued Mrs Bennett was a Slytherin. But if we take Mrs Bennett's Gryffindor traits, where she can't really control herself, mr Darcy looks down on that. He doesn't like that sense of impropriety and I think that makes sense with his personality.

Caily :

Mr Darcy's really shrewd, he's savvy, he sizes people up, he is extremely resourceful. Think about the fact that he finds a way to track down Wickham and then when Lizzie thanks him, he admits it wasn't because I had empathy for your family, it was for you alone. He's horrible to Elizabeth, but then, once he commits to her, he does not give up. And that's what reminds me of Snape too. Snape is similarly very shrewd, smart, private. Snape is so dedicated to Lily, right the always the fact that his patronus embodies her forever. Think about Mr Darcy. And even though Elizabeth rejects him and even though he thinks he's not gonna get another chance with her, he never gives up and keeps pursuing her. So there's this level of commitment to her and Slytherin's look after their own, just like we said.

izzy:

I love that. No, I love all of the points that you've literally just made there. And I was also thinking about you know what the sorting set is about? Any means to achieve their ends, that they're willing to go to any lengths. I was thinking about that with the interference with Jane and Bingley, because he really cares about Mr Bingley as a friend but really does go to great lengths to separate them. He betrays Bingley's trust in doing that. Obviously Bingley doesn't find out till later but he takes him away without kind of talking to him about the situation first. He just assumes I know best and I don't know about you. But I kind of see Bingley as a bit of a hufflepuff and just kind of being led on by Darcy. He's kind of got this stronger personality.

Caily :

Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up. I was thinking about that too. Mr Darcy, just like you said, means to an end. He will do anything to get Bingley away from Jane. He knows Jane's in town and he's very deceitful about hiding the fact that Jane's there from Bingley. And how he manipulates Bingley too and convinces Bingley that Jane never cared for him. That seems slithering to me.

izzy:

Yes, yeah, I think so. Do you wanna hear my thoughts on my secondary house of Gryffindor?

Caily :

Yes, I wanna hear this. I'm so curious.

izzy:

Okay so. So I did mostly think he was slithering, but then I also thought, you know, he does have some Gryffindor traits. You see him as that kind of that protector of the underdog at times. Something that stands out to me as the way that his housekeeper talks about him, like she says I've never had a crossword from him in my life. He's a really kind employer, like she really sings his praises and also kind of just a little bit later on from that, mrs Gardner kind of gives her 10 cents about Mr Darcy and she says he has not an ill-natured look. On the contrary, there was something pleasing about his mouth when he speaks. And you know, I've seen Mrs Gardner as someone who's really intuitive, like she's. She really sizes people up in her initial thoughts on Mr Darcy as this. So that makes me think, you know, that he's kind of maybe got this kind of soft side that's maybe a little bit more compassionate than sometimes we see from Slytherin's and the fact that he's so caring towards his sister, ms Darcy. You know he's really. You know, therefore, constantly and I mean again, that is a slithering trait as well you know loyalty to family and everything.

izzy:

So it's difficult, honestly, this is the one that I really struggled with Like wasn't a hundred percent on this secondary health. But he is impulsive and that is very much a Gryffindor trait, you know. He kind of springs the first proposal on Lizzie. It's like really awkward because he keeps appearing. And then he's like I'm just gonna propose to you now. And obviously when she rejects him he sends that letter straight away, like he doesn't ponder on it. He's like right, I'm writing a letter to clarify everything that's gone on with Mr Wickham and why I made the decisions that I made. You know he doesn't sit and be reflective on it, like I think a Ravenclaw word, he's just like send it out. When Lydia goes missing, he's like on the road to London like he's gonna find her. You know he's straight to finding solutions.

Caily :

Oh my gosh, this is so interesting. Okay, so I had the same. I had the same issues, kind of going back and forth between the secondary houses, but I think. Okay, so I think you're gonna be shocked by what I say it, but I put his secondary house as Hufflepuff.

izzy:

You know what? I'm not shocked because I had Hufflepuff at one point.

Caily :

I think where we disagree is our interpretation of whether or not he's impulsive. Part of the reason I didn't put him in Gryffindor is because I actually see him as a lot more measured a lot of the time than other heroes. Like I don't wanna give it away before it's time, but there's one hero that I think is a tried and true Gryffindor and I think about if he were in the position where he found out that Wickham was about to elope with his sister. I see this hero punching Wickham like totally losing all control, being very impulsive and I think Mr Darcy was actually pretty, pretty measured about it, like he initially gave Wickham a chance. He, you know, I know that his initial proposal seems bumbling and out of the blue, but he comes and visits the house another time and is sitting there trying to pluck up the courage and can't really communicate with Elizabeth. And yeah, I actually I just saw him as more reserved and measured and even the way that he goes about courting Elizabeth again, befriending the gardeners, I actually see that as having a lot of patience. I think the fact that he's a loyal friend. He, you know, even though he manipulated Bingley and what he did with Jane wasn't cool, he cares about Bingley's best interest and he's very loyal to him. I think the way he treats his sister he's so loyal.

Caily :

I think I was also thinking about what the housekeeper said and I thought that sounded very hufflepuff, like I've never heard a cross word from him in my life. He is talking about how humble he is and fair to the servants. Like that feels hufflepuff to me and he has this sense of well, duty could be griffin. He has a sense of duty and doing what's right, which could be either griffin or hufflepuff. Anyway, it's so hard, it's so hard. But yeah, I just yeah. That's where I ended up. No, no.

izzy:

And honestly, I was like back and forth with my hufflepuff, my hufflepuff thoughts for him, honestly, it was really difficult because I feel like a lot of things that I said for Gryffindor, like he said, could be considered hufflepuff traits as well. And I think you actually would be close to convincing me of hufflepuff, because something that I just thought about there is hufflepuffs, one of the houses that kind of try to avoid conflict and I feel like even though Mr Darcy does, he is shocked by Elizabeth's rejection. I think that's probably more of his slither inside. He doesn't like argue, the toss with it.

izzy:

He's not like like sometimes when you see some of the other heroines in here, it's like Miss and Ily and Emma, where they're like backwards and forwards in confrontation. Well, kind of confrontation is kind of like of wisdom, but they kind of feel back and forth of confrontation. I feel like you don't see that with Darcy he's kind of like backs off and he's like. You know, I fully understand what you're saying. I'm going to go now. So I think that's more hufflepuff, like he takes himself away from the confrontation and, like you said, he's never gone up to wicking and being like. You know what are you doing in Highbury. Why are you messing around with this person? Or you know he doesn't expose him and I feel like that's a very hufflepuff trait. He's trying to avoid the conflict.

Caily :

Yes, yes exactly he I you captured it so well and I was trying to put that feeling into words. I think he comes in with such slither and traits but then once Elizabeth calls him out, he actually takes what she says into account and changes. And I think about too how he talks about all of these notions of breeding and how people are inferior to him. But think about how good he is with his words, with actually judging character, like he ends up loving the gardeners. They're his favorite people because he sees the good quality in them. He recognizes that Charlotte is way out of Mr Collins's league. He, I think people who are fair and just and kind. He recognizes those qualities in people. He, even even when he's still being uppity, he recognizes the Lizzie and Jane are set apart from their family in the way that they are really well-behaved. And yeah, I don't know.

izzy:

So I love that. It's like maybe it's like an expectation for him to behave such as not actually his real personality to do so, yeah, yeah.

Caily :

But isn't it odd? Isn't it odd, to have someone have a slither and hufflepuff combination? It doesn't feel like those two would go together.

izzy:

I know, I know, but I feel like at the same time you do see him backtracking a lot Like his demeanor when Lizzie and the gardeners are at Pembley is so different than you see him anywhere else. And maybe he's just more slither in when he's out in society, Like maybe that's his way of dealing with social situations. But when he's at home and he's in his own space he can be more hufflepuff.

Caily :

Yeah, and it's so interesting because I did land on hufflepuff, but I just Devils advocate. Where I got really hung up is hufflepuffs are known for being really friendly and people pleasing, and Darcy is the opposite of a people pleaser, right. So it's not a perfect fit, and part of me, too wanted to acknowledge his intelligence too, which was sort of raving. He's just all over the map for me, right.

izzy:

So I think his intelligence is like a practical intelligence, which again I think is a slither and thing, like you know. I mean the way that he's able to manage the estate and has done from a young age, he's kind of very logical the way he thinks things through. He's like you know how am I going to sort the Wiccan sitrars? Initially he's like right, I'll pay him off, done, sorted, not an issue. And you know what? I think you've really convinced me of the hufflepuff side because I'm thinking he's not that hotheaded and that's such a strong characteristic of Gryffindor, even to the extent that there's some darker size of Gryffindor if you think about her mining, kidnapping Rita Skeeter, or I feel like there are some other examples that I'm always like that's so dark. You know what I mean and I don't see Mr Nutt and I don't see Mr Darcy like Fine into those characteristics.

Caily :

Exactly like mr Darcy wouldn't have dueled wickum, whereas I can see other Gryffindors doing that, or Fred and George throwing the Slytherin player into the vanishing cabinets and not caring about it, like, yeah, just that, that acting before thinking type situation.

izzy:

Yeah, yeah, I think he convinced me. I think we should go Slytherin, hufflepuff, okay. So which Hogwarts house would Edmund Bertram be in? We can pick a primary and a secondary house. So, edmund Bertram, I'll pass over to you to intro him.

Caily :

All right. So Edmund Bertram is One of the few people who makes Fanny feel welcome. Right when she moves in with the Bertram family Fanny faces a lot of prejudice. She's kind of treated like a second-class citizen. And Edmund is just introed as being super kind to her, curious about her life and who she is, he really. He protects her, he takes her under his wing.

Caily :

He is known for his, his moral compass. He wants to what's it called? He wants to be a clergyman. Is that what I would say, pastor? Okay, he wants to be a clergyman. He's very, very focused on people doing what's right and fair, doing the moral thing, having a strong conscience, and he really admires that. Fanny always does what what's right.

Caily :

I think of the scene with the. I think of the part with the play where Fanny Begs them all to not do the play and originally he agrees with her but swayed by Mary and by other people to do this play that he knows that his father wouldn't approve of. And you know, when the father comes back and is horrified that everyone's done this play, that's, for the time, considered a moral. Edmund really admires Fanny and says Fanny was always steadfast in her beliefs. Fanny is the one who always did what was right and stood up for what was right. So he, he really cares about people doing the honest good kind thing.

Caily :

That being said, he's swayed by Mary Crawford. Right, he's enamored with her and he recognizes that she Spits out these kind of socially inappropriate Comments. She talks about her uncle in a negative way in public. He doesn't like that. He names that. He doesn't like that to Fanny. But then he proceeds to ignore it and says how in love with Mary he is, so he's kind of captivated by her but eventually comes back to his love Fanny, because Fanny represents to him all that is good and moral and just and stable. I Think the such a.

izzy:

This is such a nice description of Edmund. I feel like I just find him like such a problematic hero, honestly, but I like you to be nice about it.

Caily :

I'm trying to be nice about him, um, I Do. I do think he is. He can be kind of Descending at time. I'm so I'm so curious to hear why you don't like him because I do. I do that. See that side of it too. He can be he kind of For all of the times that he stands up for Fanny, against his aunt, making sure Fanny has a horse, making sure, advocating that Fanny can come along to all of these events.

Caily :

He also Neglects Fanny while he's mesmerized with Mary Crawford. So I Would say, do you want to hear what my primary is? Yeah, okay, I said for him, primary house is Hufflepuff and the reason for this is, I do think he has a kindness and he has Patience about him. He's very caring and nurturing of Fanny. Um, I think he also hasn't. He's naive like he. He talks about being astounded that Mariah and Mr Crawford and I'm sorry he's astounded that Mariah and Mr Crawford engaged in this affair and he honestly can't believe it. He there are all these quotes where he's just horrified and he all he also wants to think the best of Mary Crawford and he he kind of projects this fantasy of her onto her. That isn't really who she is. He idealizes her and then is so shocked when she falls from grace in his eyes. So I just think the fact that she has Mary has such a negative even though I kind of like Mary's funk, let's be real, mary and Pulls him away from his morality and his ideals. That feels like oh, a weakness of Hufflepuff because he's not as steadfast as Fanny.

Caily :

I really like this quote where he says um, I can not but think that for me, for my feelings, her faults of principle, fanny, of blunted delicacy and a corrupted, corrupted mind, perhaps it's best for me, since it leaves me so little to regret. Gladly I would submit to all the increased pain of losing her rather than have to think of her as I do. I Told her so, so like thinking badly of people makes him feel so upset. I also really liked when he and Mary Crawford talk about His ambitions to be a clergyman and she basically is telling him that's boring, why wouldn't you want to be in a city? And he goes, I should hope, of the proportion of virtue to vice throughout the kingdom. We do not look in great cities for our best morality, so he's just so morally focused and Committed to what's fair. Yeah, what do you think with primary house?

izzy:

Yeah, I, my primary house was Hufflepuff as well in, even though he has kind of like this moral focus which I feel like is more like a Ravenclaw trait, he abandons his morals all the time, like constantly. He's just so easily led by Mary Crawford mostly, but, um, yeah, but I agree with all of the points that you made and you made some extra ones that I loved as well. But he is so kind to Fanny and he doesn't seem to care that she's like the quote-unquote poor relation that everybody else seems like obsessed with, and then the end he does marry her and you know it doesn't seem to bother him then either. He also I love what you said about like the fact that he wants to be a clergyman and Mary so like Against it and tries to convince him otherwise. I'm like she's always saying like don't men want to distinguish themselves in? And I think she also says like is there not another relation that could like give you a fortune?

izzy:

And For Edmund, like he's much more willing to work for his living, then have something kind of given to him as a birthright which I think shows him is kind of like a Hufflepuff over someone, like like a slithering, and so, yeah, I agree with all of that and, yeah, I think maybe one of the things that I Think in like a sad way is maybe the weakness of Hufflepuff. That really stood out to me first. For him was the fact that he is so easily Led by Mary Crawford and, like he said, with the play. I mean he is like he's like this play is terrible. It's a moral. You know, it's totally inappropriate for us to do this. And then as soon as he finds out there's like an intimate scene with Mary, he's like I'll do the play.

Caily :

It's fine.

izzy:

And Fanny's like what? Like how have you just like gone? Like you know, changed your mind entirely in Another example as well is he is kind of funny but like you said about the whole situation, like he says to Fanny like you need to ride every single day. Then if it comes to Mary Crawford wanting to ride, it's like forget you, fanny. You know We'll go out riding for ages and like I know he does try and pull it back, but I just find him so problematic as a hero, like I mean I personally think he would have it would have been better for Fanny, for her to have gone with Henry Crawford to be perfectly honest with you, because I actually think Edmund is Very similar to his family in the sense that he just kind of picks and drops Fanny when he wants to, and I think that she would have been better going with Henry Crawford and being taken away from the family entirely.

Caily :

Yeah, I'm laughing because my best friend, lily, is gonna love hearing you talk about this, because she thinks Edmund is the worst.

Caily :

She really really does like his wishy-washy-ness and yeah, that's a fair point. He really, you know he's. He goes so above and beyond to be kind to Fanny that it almost feels harsher when it's suddenly taken away to people, please to Mary Crawford, and yeah, it's cruel. It's cruel in a sense and I know Fanny's not your favorite, but that is where I have compassion for her because he really she is so reliant upon him and he is so back and forth and indecisive.

izzy:

And he's made her reliant on him as well, which I think is makes it all worse, because, you know, for her it becomes confusing because she's like how would he forget me? Why would he not be here, like sorting things for me in? Yeah, I think it is this, this kind of the fact that he can kind of drop things for for Mary Crawford, who's kind of the is Kind of gaining more attention from people. You know, she's like the more Interesting character really at the end of the day and, yeah, he's drawn to that. And I Think as well and I think we're like Hufflepuff's that I was saying before is they're kind of more driven towards like Love and being with other people and like that companionship. And you see that with with Edmund, the fact that he's like All about Mary and the next thing you know, like because Mary's not an option anymore, he's all about funny and I'm just like you know it's not like fickle nature, I'm a bit like I don't know.

Caily :

Yeah, I Understand, I understand why he Would be off-putting, because he doesn't have this sense of self and the the strength about him and the steadfast Stoicism that a lot of the Austin heroes have, and so I feel that's weird. It's weird that I'm defending him more than I expect because I agree, it's cruel the way he's wishy-washy, but I also just see moments where he he is truly kind and it does feel authentic. I feel like he just gets led on on the wrong track. But I think about how he gave up his inheritance to Settle his brother's debts and how so many times, he shows how responsible he is, kind of picking up his older brother's slack and Showing that really he would be the better heir. He, he's hard-working, he takes care of the home while his father and brother are away. I think there is, I think there's a lot of good there and there's actually.

Caily :

Manfield Park is the only book that I didn't read before seeing an adaptation, and I saw I think it was the. Was it the 2007 adaptation of man Billy Piper? I think I. She's a brunette, fanny's a broom. Oh no, I think that's a different one. Yeah, I really liked that one actually, and I think they portray him in a more favorable light, and so I wonder if that portrayal of him has me be a little kinder to him. I don't know, he's like sweet.

izzy:

I love it. Um, but you know my secondary house for him was Gryffindor. You know like I was. Yeah Was yours, Gryffindor, because I feel like you're gonna be shocked because I thought you wouldn't expect me to pick Gryffindor as a secondary house.

Caily :

We were in agreement on both for this one, oh my gosh.

izzy:

I love it.

Caily :

We have such different opinions of him. Well, that's so funny yeah.

izzy:

Yeah, I think he fits into Gryffindor as a secondary house really well. I mean, I think about the way that he Defends Fanny against Mrs Norris, like you know she's really awful and he is. It's kind of like what Hermione says. You know that's saving people thing and he very much has that. Like he jumps in there and he's almost harsh in the way that he speaks to her. You know he's he's gets real angry about it, especially when they have like Fanny outside all day and she's like picking roses and apparently that's a bit too much for Fanny, so and he just goes mental about it. Um, so he's got quite a short temper. You know, it makes me think. Do you remember like the Harry Umbridge situations I was like I really feel that dynamic between Edmund and Mrs Norris.

Caily :

Oh Wait, that's brilliant. Oh my oh. Mrs Norris is so awful in the way that Umbridge is. Oh, that power struggle.

izzy:

The only reason I like wouldn't think of him as like a Gryffindor is like I feel like he doesn't go far enough. You know, like I feel like there's an yes, there's clearly an issue with the way that Fanny's treated, but he tells me, says Norris off, but then doesn't do anything, like he doesn't remove her from the situation. You know, and I feel like characters like Darcy, for instance, would do that, like they would take the initiative to remove that person from the situation. They wouldn't just be like look, I'm gonna buy you a horse. Or like putting a plaster over the situation, like no, she's still in a terrible dynamic here, like I just don't get that he doesn't do more.

izzy:

And that's why I was a little bit like, oh, is he Gryffindor there? Because I feel like Gryffindor's really go that extra mile to make sure the underdog is Put into a better situation. And think about Dobby when you know, you know how he gives him the sock, you know, and that completely changes this life. He's not just like you know what, dobby, you can come around to my house every so often. That's cool. You know, we'll have a chit chat every now and again. You know he changes his, his situation in life that's.

Caily :

That's a really good point with the follow-through because yeah the reason.

Caily :

I put. The two biggest reasons why I put him as Gryffindor for a secondary house is one the protect protector of the underdog. That's very Gryffindor and he really is that way with Fanny and with his brother when his brother's in Trouble, right, like that generous nature. But then, oh my gosh, he is all over the place, impulsivity wise, and you're right, he has such a short fuse. Even at the end of the novel. It's like All right, I'm totally in love with Mary Crawford, and then Mary is pretty awful and says some pretty awful things. But then there's a passage and you just see if I can find it when it basically says well, a week later he was totally convinced that he was ready to marry Fanny and Fanny was the love of his life, like the end. And it's like whoa Dude, you are all over the place.

izzy:

Literally. Oh my gosh, it kind of makes me think, a little bit like about Ron, you know, when he's I can't remember the girl's name is when he's dating that girl in Lavender, in Half-Blood Prince, is it? Yeah, and it's a half-blood prince that he's dating. Your is, isn't it? So he joins the quidditch team. Yeah, it just makes me think about yeah.

izzy:

So funny. I did have another point for him to be Gryffindor, though. I've just thought of then that he he seeks so much like confirmation and validation from from Fanny about Mary Crawford, and I feel like that's very much like a Gryffindor thing, where you need other people to assure you that what you're doing is Is like you're on the right path. And he constantly goes to Fanny, like Fanny, like, what do you think of Mary Crawford? You know, what do you think about this thing that she said I mean sometimes he doesn't really listen to her, but Is that need to get confirmation from someone that they respect, that they're doing the right thing, and I think that's very much like a Gryffindor thing, whereas a Slytherin or Ravenclaw will be happy to just be like this is my fault, I'm happy with it, I'm sticking with it.

Caily :

That is a really good point. I think Hufflepuffs and Gryffindors and he has both need a lot of external validation and you're right, like he does need. He kind of throws Fanny to the side sometimes, but then it constantly needs her validation and ego boosting. Yeah, he's a bit insecure, isn't he?

izzy:

That drives me up the wall. Honestly, like Edmund, make your own choice. Just decide what you want. Drives me up the wall, Said the Ravenclaw.

Caily :

What you're saying is Edmund and Fanny are your favorite of all of Austin's couples. Right, they're your faves.

izzy:

Honestly, I have such pain, but I feel like if I was like, if I was like to meet Austin's ghost, I feel like that is the couple or the book that I would actually ask her about. I'd be like what was going on here, like what was going on with the funny Edmund dynamic, like what.

Caily :

Yeah, I wonder if. Do you think Jane Austen liked Fanny as a protagonist?

izzy:

I just can't see it. Because she likes Lizzie and Emma so much, I'm like how could she have liked Fanny as well? That's what would get me, because Fanny's just so. I mean, she is bold in the moments where she like turns down Henry Crawford, but that's about it. She really takes some rubbish.

izzy:

I'm not going to lie to you, if I was Fanny I'd be like all of this family is toxic to me. I've obviously become very attached to them. I need to remove myself and I would definitely go with Henry, because Henry really actually does fall in love with her. He says, like you know, I'm going to take her away from this family. I'm going to show her like what's out there. I'm going to give her a life she could never have dreamed of.

izzy:

If I was Fanny and I'd grown up around all these people, I think I would have removed myself. I think I would have been like, look, I'm a little bit concerned about X, y and Z, henry, but if you can assure me on those things, I'll come with you, because the thing with staying with Edmund is she doesn't remove herself from the situation, she just continues. She's around all those people. I know Mrs Norris is removed, but Sir Thomas Bertram and Lady Bertram. Neither of them were that decent growing up. The only reason that they like her in the end is because their other daughters run off and you know, a loathe will have an affair.

Caily :

That is such a good point actually about. I mean, I think it is huge that Mrs Norris isn't part of the picture anymore, because she was the one who really set the tone for not only adopting Fanny but then treating her like a second class citizen. But yeah, there is sort of a weird power imbalance there that's probably hard to come back from, and also just the fact that they were set up as a brother-sister relationship little, little odd, it's so weird.

izzy:

It's so weird to me. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think you could live being like obviously Plan B as well? Because I don't think I could, you know, because it was obviously the entire book. He wants to be with Mary Crawford and then it's like the final couple of chapters he decides on funny instead Like I could not live with that personally?

Caily :

No, I'd be so angry, I don't think I'd be able to get over that.

Caily :

I think an argument is they set it up that he doesn't know himself well enough to realize he's in love with Fanny the whole time Because he always respects Fanny's opinion so much you know what I mean Like he's always like oh yeah, fanny's right, his intuition tells him he's not a good fit with Mary. He keeps ignoring it. So I think I get the argument that he finally has this big moment where it was like it was you all along. But if I were Fanny I don't know if I could forgive that, all of those shenanigans.

izzy:

I know Also if you're thinking about like the, you know friends to lovers trope and you compare it to Emma. Like Emma in Nightly situation. I mean night and day. I mean you know what I mean. That's real difference there.

Caily :

Oh my gosh. Yeah, when you say it like that, fanny and Edmund do seem so much more incestuous. All right, let's leave it behind.

izzy:

Let's just end it there, okay. Okay then. Do you want to move on to you, mr Nightly? Then the final one.

Caily :

Yeah, I love Mr Nightly.

izzy:

I just have to say he's my favorite.

Caily :

Do you want to do the primary house first?

izzy:

Okay. So my primary house, Mr Nightly, is Ravenclaw. So, oh my gosh, I feel like we've got different ones. We've got different ones. Yeah, yeah, Never second.

izzy:

Okay, I will tell you my reasoning behind Ravenclaw, then. So one of the main reasons is that he's so independent and kind of introverted. You know he spends a lot of his time at Dunwall Abbey on his own, and has done for a really long time. He likes to be in his own company, he's not afraid of it and yeah, I feel like that's out of all of the houses. I feel like that suits a Ravenclaw. More, he's open-minded and sees past superficial differences. So we see his behavior towards Robert Martin and William Larkin. You know these people work on his estate, but he is so caring and he sees them as equals, even though in society stands they aren't.

izzy:

So there's like a moment at the end of Emma, which I love, in which he says to Emma you know you make fun of me about William Larkin's, but I could quite as ill spare Robert Martin, and you know, if I could adjust his position in society that I would. Actually, I think that was a quote, that was something that I was going to bring in later. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. That's fine. If I could, you know, change his position in society, I would, and I just think you know that's like so nicely. He looks beyond what society says about people. The same with Jane Fairfax he really admires her because of her ability on the piano and I really think that Jane Fairfax is a Ravenclaw, and I feel like you know, I feel like they get on so well because they're like they have this like Ravenclaw Ravenclaw bond.

izzy:

He's got so much wit and is incredibly intelligent. I mean, if we look at his like the arguments that he has with Emma, you know he really holds his own and he comes with facts and can back it up and he's like, you know, this is this is how I see it he's not really got time for stupidity. So you know he thinks the piano fort is like a really silly gift because he's like it's not practical at all. She lives in a tiny house and he thinks it's a boyish scheme. He's described as being prophetic and having the ability to kind of predict the future, and this made me think of Sybil so much. I was literally just like, oh my gosh, like Mr Nightley predicts the Emma and Harry are not being good friends, the fact that Mr Elton isn't going to choose Harriet and the Frank and Jane situation, and I was like this is like Sybil predicting, you know, the Harry Voldemort prophecy.

Caily :

I love that point. Oh my, so Sybil is a Ravenclaw Trelawney.

izzy:

Yeah, yeah, it's a Ravenclaw. Yeah, oh my gosh.

Caily :

I totally forgot that. Wait, I love that point, izzy, that he, he does, he sizes things up and he can predict the future. Oh my gosh, I did not even put that together, but that's my favorite point you've made so far about him.

izzy:

And you know Ravenclaw's like to review the situation before charging forward. He's very much like that about his, about his suspicions about Frank and Jane. He really ponders on it and thinks about it for a while. He observes them, obviously like the secret looks that he's observing, and it takes me a while, like he really has to have his books in a row before he goes to Emma and he's like look, I'm a little bit concerned about this.

izzy:

Now, one thing that I struggled with about Ravenclaw traits is Ravenclaw is like Hufflepuff, so like conflicted verse, and obviously he's really up for a debate with Emma a lot of the time.

izzy:

In the way that I kind of got around it and I was like him and Emma are both.

izzy:

They are both intelligent and witty and I was like maybe if it's like a debate based on knowledge or just like your thoughts on things or you know your ideas, it's different, because I did think about the fact that he doesn't he doesn't look for other confrontations, like if you think about the fact that the scene and the Randalls when it snows outside in, john Knightley's going like he's like it's snowed, we'll all be stuck here.

izzy:

You know that's the end and Mr Woodhouse is freaking out, mr Knightley goes outside and he's, you know, down the street checking that everything's okay and he's like crisis averted, guys, it's all fine, nobody panic. And you know, and he never loses his temper with Mrs Alton even though she's like crazy, and he's also, you know, always really considerate to miss Bates as well. You know and we see from Emma that it's quite easy to kind of lose your temper with people like that, but he never does. He's so composed, he's so calm, yeah, and you, he spends a lot of time in his own mind. So I was like you really screams Ravenclaw to me.

Caily :

Oh my gosh. So I really respect that you put it. His primary house is Ravenclaw. Because when I first thought of him with, with all of the heroes, I was like he has, he has, like he just has the essence of Ravenclaw, like I should put him in Ravenclaw as the primary house and I ended up not being able to do it and so do you want to guess what I put him in for?

Caily :

What do you think I put him in?

Caily :

Did you put Griffin dog? I did, I did, and it doesn't fully fit. But the reason that I put him in Gryffindor, at the end of the day, is he's he's so chivalrous, he's like I think of it. I think of Gryffindor as the knights and shining armor, protecting everyone, saving everyone. And his name is literally Mr nightly, like he's been. He's like he I think to.

Caily :

I think of Gryffindor as the protectors of the underdogs, right, and he is so focused on what's right. I think he does get into those debates when he thinks that Emma or someone else is doing something immoral and he's very focused on justice and actually he is measured about certain things. But he actually does lose his temper when he finds out that Emma persuaded Harriet not to marry Mr Martin. And even though Mr Martin is a lower class, he respects Mr Martin's personality, sense of honor, positive characteristics, and he's really mad at Emma for belittling Mr Martin. And then also the scene where he's like badly done Emma when Emma slates Mrs Bates like he also takes care of Mrs Bates and he he knows how to jump in and take care of everyone, just like you were saying at the party, like he's very nurturing to Mr Woodhouse.

Caily :

What else did I say about Mr nightly with with Gryffindor? Yeah, I think he just he cares about he, he cares about honor so much. And but then I it was so hard. He reminded me of how we both felt with with Lizzie Bennett, where it was so hard to make the final decision between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw because we really felt like instead of primary and secondary, it was really a 5050 like. If someone if listen, if listeners DM to me and said, oh, elizabeth is a Ravenclaw, I'd be like, yeah, I see that even though I put her as Gryffindor, I think that she's a Ravenclaw and I see that argument for for him to yeah.

izzy:

I do love yeah, I know I really love some of the points you've made about him being a Gryffindor and because I can really see that and I think I see I really did toil with the fact that that that compassion towards Robert Martin, miss Bates, with him being a Gryffindor, because he's like a leader of society but isn't as kind of over the top with it that I think maybe Slytherins can often be. He's, he's very much a leader but it's kind of in the shadows a little bit more. I think he's actually like a parish counselor and if you do a parish counselor, like in the UK, we call a parish counselor somebody who runs like like the towns and stuff. They like make decisions, like if you need more bins or that kind of thing, and he's like a parish counselor in in hybrid. They like meet up at the crown and everything they talk through.

izzy:

I think Mr Elton and Mr Westerner as well, and I just think you know he's he's one of those people that puts themselves forwards to make sure that other people are, you know, have what they need. We see that with Miss Bates and the apples, that he goes and takes them and yeah, yeah, in the night comment yep, nightly. He is a night. He's so gallant and, yeah, it's very Gryffindor. But you're going to be so shocked when I tell you Gryffindor isn't my secondary house either.

Caily :

Would you put for your second house? I put Hufflepuff. Yeah, I toyed with that. I see that. What did you think with Hufflepuff?

izzy:

So I just wasn't 100% sure about this. I was back and forth with, like, gryffindor Hufflepuff. The reason I went with Hufflepuff is, I really, the fact that earth is the element for Hufflepuffs. I really feel that for nightly, like the earth element, like he's very much hands on on his estate, I think more than any of the other heroes. He knows about the different harvests, when the apples are coming, when the strawberries are coming, and he wants people to come and do those like practical things, like picking the strawberries. And I think there's a moment where they're going to build a new road in hybrid and he's like involved with that and he's saying like you can't put it through this words because it'll like affect the nature or something. And you know he's always walking everywhere or riding. He just seems like really in touch with the natural world, you know. And so, yeah, I was kind of drawn to him as being a Hufflepuff, you know.

Caily :

I see it, and I had that as his secondary house to at one point. I think I'm even looking at my notes with that. Yeah, didn't he? Even though he has all the money to take a carriage, didn't he always prefer to walk and, like he's, he doesn't care about, even though he's well off, he doesn't care about grandeur or status or any any of that. I really like what you said about his down to earthness, right like the earth element of Hufflepuff. I agree with that. I think I see him as Emma's barometer, like he. Well, this is a raven clot trade actually. He has a strong sense of wisdom and he really knows who he is and he helps ground Emma, which, oh my gosh.

izzy:

Now I'm saying it's hard, it's so, so hard. I'm like. I'm like looking at some of the like initial traits that we put down for like Hufflepuff and like treats everyone equally, he really does that, is inclusive, is patient, like he is pay. I know that he, like you know, has these arguments with Emma, but he is patient with her and he lets her learn and grow loyal. He's really loyal to the woodhouses, you know like they're like his substitute family, more or less yeah, he agrees to move in with Mr Woodhouse.

Caily :

like that requires some patience.

izzy:

Yeah, and to give up something that's so important, say, if you know, if we put Ravenclaw is like a primary trait, like his Ravenclaw qualities, a primary trait, giving up his independence to move in with the woodhouses would be a really big step, like given whether we had like Gryffindor or Hufflepuff sides. You know that would that would be a lot for him to do. It really takes some consideration. But you know, love kind of trumps it, which makes me think more Hufflepuff because you know he's willing to make those sacrifices.

Caily :

When you said that about his agreeing to give up his independence for Emma and drop things to move in with her, that's when. That was the moment where I'm okay with letting go of Gryffindor, because that's a Hufflepuff that Gryffindors would never give up their independence, that's so oh my gosh, wait, you really blew my mind. Okay, wait. So listen to this. I wrote down this quote and I want to see what house do you associate this with. Mr Knightley's air is so remarkably good that it's not fair to compare Mr Martin with him. You might not see one in 100 with gentlemen so plainly written as in Mr Knightley. Remember when Harriet and Emma were talking about how Mr Knightley is the perfect gentleman, and so if someone's a gentleman, what house do we associate that with?

izzy:

Oh, that's such a good question.

izzy:

Oh, my god, I think that's subjective, like I genuinely do like, do you think, think about, like characteristics, and what do you think is the strongest trait of a Hufflepuff?

izzy:

For me I'd say it's their kindness, and I'd say for Gryffindor's their strongest trait is bravery, and if I'm going off that, I think Mr Knightley's more kind than brave Because he holds back on telling Emma his feelings because he knows what he'd be sacrificing should she say no, you know what I mean He'd lose this family that he's a part of and his friend Emma and he's really like even maybe the society as a whole. It'd be really tough for him and he goes away. He leaves because he thinks that she's more interested in Frank Churchill. He leaves and I just don't know if a Gryffindor would do that. I feel like a Gryffindor would say They'd say like I've got feelings for you, like I need to be honest about it, like you don't think about, like Harry and Cho Chan, like obviously she's like just lost Cedric not so long ago, but he's still Prashusa, whereas I feel like a hufflepuff would leave in wait and see, you know, yeah.

Caily :

Oh my gosh, I'm so torn because, yes, blindness, okay, loyalty, is associated with Gryffindor and Hufflepuff. And I that's on the forefront of like how I view Mr Knightley Chivalry, he's so chivalry let's look up the definition of chivalry, right, because that's so Gryffindor, then the kindness is so Hufflepuff. What do you think?

izzy:

Ah, it's so hard. Okay, let's look at it a different way then. So our picks for Emma were Slytherin and Gryffindor. So if we think of it from that stance, do you think I think it would make sense him being a Gryffindor, because I feel like a Ravenclaw and Slytherin are a good match together. So if that's both their primary houses and then a Gryffindor, Gryffindor, a secondary house would kind of make sense. It's kind of how they I don't know, I thought it was something that I was like. I don't know if I even believe what I'm saying.

Caily :

I love that. I love that. I said that Mr Darcy was the hardest, but this is so difficult. Can we just say he's so wonderful that he gets to be three houses? No, that's cheating, okay. So definition of chivalrous is courteous and gallant. He's so chivalrous, right? But then, okay, you're right. This is a good way to look at it because we're stuck right now.

izzy:

So we said Emma was primary Slytherin and I said Ravenclaw is secondary, but you said Gryffindor and I think you swayed me to Gryffindor.

Caily :

Okay, so from my understanding, Slytherins and Ravenclaws tend to be attracted to one another right Because they both have that practical savviness. They're both more independent, and Gryffindors and Hufflepuffs tend to share those common traits of being loyal, a commitment to justice. So they're usually attracted to each other. So wouldn't it make sense if Emma's primary Slytherin, secondary Gryffindor, that he would be primary Ravenclaw, secondary Hufflepuff or yeah, like a combination of all the houses.

izzy:

Okay. So maybe he's you know what, you know what I think it is, and maybe it's that he's neither got strong Gryffindor or Hufflepuff traits in the scent that we can make it a secondary house. For me he's very much Ravenclaw, that's the thing. That's why I struggled to place him. I don't know, was Ravenclaw your primary?

Caily :

I ended up making Gryffindor my primary, but when I have a gut instinct and I don't think about it too hard and I think of all of the heroes, when I look at him as if I can see him, when I think of him and just capturing his essence, I do think Ravenclaw vibes Okay.

izzy:

Well, if you felt strongly enough about it to put Gryffindor as his primary house until we discussed that, I would say he's probably Ravenclaw Gryffindor.

Caily :

Let's go with it. He's so wonderful. He also has the best of Hufflepuff too.

izzy:

Yeah, he doesn't really have the weaknesses of Hufflepuff. I wouldn't say he's not easily led.

Caily :

No, and that's what I think is very Ravenclaw about him is his wisdom, just like you said, his ability to anticipate what's going to happen, and his groundedness and what he thinks is right. That sense of self, I think is very Ravenclaw. I'm on board with that.

izzy:

Okay, let's go. Ravenclaw Gryffindor then for Mr Knightley.

Caily :

Oh my gosh, I can't wait to hear what the listeners think too, because I would respect it going so many different ways with him. But yes, let's set on that.

izzy:

I know? Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to hear well, we'd love to hear what you guys have to say on this as well. So, yeah, please feel free to reach out to us, let us know your thoughts, but that is everything from us today. Kaylee, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? So I'm on.

Caily :

Instagram as half underscore agony underscore, half underscore hope, and yeah, I hope you follow me there. I post a lot of literature quotations, mostly Jane Austen, but a range of different authors, and then obviously have the link to the podcast there too. Take that one Absolutely Well. Anyway, thank you so much for having me on. This is so much fun to dissect this together.

izzy:

Absolutely, and we'll be back on later in the month with the other three novels and after today. Oh my gosh, like I don't think I'm mentally prepared for the next novel. I need to get my thoughts straight because, wow, this was. It was a lot tougher than I was thinking to sort the heroes.

Caily :

Oh my gosh, it really was. I think it's so interesting how on the same page we were with Edmund, but then Mr Darcy and Mr Knightley. They both were so difficult because they have so many layers. They're such nuanced characters, which is why they do the best.

izzy:

Absolutely so yeah, if you want to follow me and see any updates with the podcast, you can find me on Instagram at what the Austin and I share everything on there, so that's probably the best place to find out what's going on. That's everything from us today, and we'll see you in the next episode.

(Cont.) Episode 51: Sorting Jane Austen's Heroes into their Hogwarts Houses Pt 1
Mr Darcy
Edmund's Character in Mansfield Park
Edmund, Mrs. Norris, Harry, Umbridge Comparison
Debating Mr. Knightley's House
Choosing Hufflepuff for a Character